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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well thank you sir! I grew up in Quebec city speaking exclusively french. 40 years ago I took a summer job in Alberta and learned english "on the job"
I felt that learning english was essential to find good employment
Eventually I ended up working 35 years for GM splitting my time between Montreal, Toronto and Detroit.
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre, I was able to find the Matt Varnish at the other H.L. They had 2 bottles left so I got them both. Hopefully it will give me the look I want. It should be great for tires too. Lately, I have had to put a dime over the wheels and spray the tires with testors dull cote. Which is really a lot of trouble. It will be so nice to be free of airbrushes and rattle cans. Oh, and I have plenty of old paint bottles and spray cans to make model holders for painting. I take it you double side tape to get the model to stay in place on the can top or bottle top.?
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put the matt varnish on. I might put a couple more coats on. Probably as good as its going to get. Time to move on to the interior and paint something bigger. That's not a hair by the left side webers, its a glue string caused by adding glue with a tooth pick and removing it . it creates a hair like string of glue. I didnt see it till I posted the picture. I will remove it with a tweezers before it gets installed. This engine didn't have a fan in case you thought I forgot it.

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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
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Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That engine looks good. With a wash it would be perfect!!!
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
That engine looks good. With a wash it would be perfect!!!


What do you suggest for the wash? I need the bottles and how many drops each. Thanks, Pierre.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
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Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark,
I use Vallejo for washes. Just a few drops in the bottom palette and I use a small brush to apply it.
You can move it, re-wet with more wash easily or use a Q-tip to remove excess. It's very flexible.
Vallejo has tons of wash colors available. The 2 I use are:
76.523 European dust (lighter tone)
76.521 Oiled Earth (darker)
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Pierre. I will see if H.L. has them.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Painted the interior of my latest build . Took forever to get the right color but I finally realized I was looking at a silver blue color so I mixed 5 drops Vallejo silver with 3 drops dark blue one drop of blue at a time till the color matched my ref picture and I finally got the color I was looking for. I then added 8 drops of medium thinner . I had to do 2 coats for proper coverage. I will post pictures later. I wanted to paint something like the interior of this car before I did a body on my next project. I think I learned a lot about mixing. One thing I noticed was the drops are different from different bottles and sometimes a drop starts as a bubble before it becomes a drop so I dont know if my drops are all being the same. this is important because you have to mix the paint twice for two coats so you want the color to be the same each time. Maybe I was not shaking the bottles long enough to get the right consistency of paint. Hopefully Pierre can weigh in on this if you see this, Pierre.
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
...I think I learned a lot about mixing. One thing I noticed was the drops are different from different bottles and sometimes a drop starts as a bubble before it becomes a drop so I dont know if my drops are all being the same. this is important because you have to mix the paint twice for two coats so you want the color to be the same each time. .. Hopefully Pierre can weigh in on this if you see this, Pierre.


Exactly what I am dealing with now trying to mix a Bud Moore blue. I'm thinking mixing a huge batch and bottling it somehow to get the total amount needed.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefly wrote:
MarkJ wrote:
...I think I learned a lot about mixing. One thing I noticed was the drops are different from different bottles and sometimes a drop starts as a bubble before it becomes a drop so I dont know if my drops are all being the same. this is important because you have to mix the paint twice for two coats so you want the color to be the same each time. .. Hopefully Pierre can weigh in on this if you see this, Pierre.


Exactly what I am dealing with now trying to mix a Bud Moore blue. I'm thinking mixing a huge batch and bottling it somehow to get the total amount needed.


Sounds like a plan, Bill. But how do you know how much you will need?
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
Firefly wrote:
MarkJ wrote:
...I think I learned a lot about mixing. One thing I noticed was the drops are different from different bottles and sometimes a drop starts as a bubble before it becomes a drop so I dont know if my drops are all being the same. this is important because you have to mix the paint twice for two coats so you want the color to be the same each time. .. Hopefully Pierre can weigh in on this if you see this, Pierre.


Exactly what I am dealing with now trying to mix a Bud Moore blue. I'm thinking mixing a huge batch and bottling it somehow to get the total amount needed.


Sounds like a plan, Bill. But how do you know how much you will need?


I've coated out-of-the-bottle full body coats with white, so that usage gives a ballpark idea...the other issue with acrylics is the color shift wet-to-dry, So you can't mix a new batch by matching to a dry sample.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefly wrote:
MarkJ wrote:
Firefly wrote:
MarkJ wrote:
...I think I learned a lot about mixing. One thing I noticed was the drops are different from different bottles and sometimes a drop starts as a bubble before it becomes a drop so I dont know if my drops are all being the same. this is important because you have to mix the paint twice for two coats so you want the color to be the same each time. .. Hopefully Pierre can weigh in on this if you see this, Pierre.


Exactly what I am dealing with now trying to mix a Bud Moore blue. I'm thinking mixing a huge batch and bottling it somehow to get the total amount needed.


Sounds like a plan, Bill. But how do you know how much you will need?



I've coated out-of-the-bottle full body coats with white, so that usage gives a ballpark idea...the other issue with acrylics is the color shift wet-to-dry, So you can't mix a new batch by matching to a dry sample.


My take on it guys:
1- after shaking the bottle sometimes a bubble comes out first. I purge that out on a piece of paper and start the mixing when a get good clean drops.
2- I never mix large quantities. Acrylics thicken quickly which affects flow when painting. I mix 1 coat at a time and throw away what's left. I have not seen color variation issues coat to coat.
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
Firefly wrote:
MarkJ wrote:
Firefly wrote:
MarkJ wrote:
...I think I learned a lot about mixing. One thing I noticed was the drops are different from different bottles and sometimes a drop starts as a bubble before it becomes a drop so I dont know if my drops are all being the same. this is important because you have to mix the paint twice for two coats so you want the color to be the same each time. .. Hopefully Pierre can weigh in on this if you see this, Pierre.


Exactly what I am dealing with now trying to mix a Bud Moore blue. I'm thinking mixing a huge batch and bottling it somehow to get the total amount needed.


Sounds like a plan, Bill. But how do you know how much you will need?



I've coated out-of-the-bottle full body coats with white, so that usage gives a ballpark idea...the other issue with acrylics is the color shift wet-to-dry, So you can't mix a new batch by matching to a dry sample.


My take on it guys:
1- after shaking the bottle sometimes a bubble comes out first. I purge that out on a piece of paper and start the mixing when a get good clean drops.
2- I never mix large quantities. Acrylics thicken quickly which affects flow when painting. I mix 1 coat at a time and throw away what's left. I have not seen color variation issues coat to coat.


Thanks, Pierre. I never thought of the paper trick. I was trying to pop the bubbles with a toothpick as they came out of the bottle. Also you are right about the acrylic not having a long shelf life after mixing. And I have mixed the blue many times that I'm using for the interior and its come out the same every time. I really like the practice of using the pallette and painting from it. I just need to get better at choosing the right colors to begin with when trying to get to a color I need . I guess that will eventually come with practice.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Developing the right mix of colors is a bit of trial and error process but fun. Here is what I do.
I do multiple variations on note cards. For these I don't use the medium thinner because I don't care about a smooth finish.
Quick mix of 2-3 drops, splash on a thick coat, try the next variations and on.
This way I can quick test and compare 5 or 6 variations in a matter of minutes.
[url[/url]
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
Developing the right mix of colors is a bit of trial and error process but fun. Here is what I do.
I do multiple variations on note cards. For these I don't use the medium thinner because I don't care about a smooth finish.
Quick mix of 2-3 drops, splash on a thick coat, try the next variations and on.
This way I can quick test and compare 5 or 6 variations in a matter of minutes.
[url[/url]


Thats a great idea, Pierre. And you will always have them for reference close at hand. I need to get some note cards and a box to keep them in.
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 694
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First try at brush painting. (Decaling in progress now.) The Tamiya white settles smooth and glossy. I did not thin enough and got some brush marks. However, the acrylic paint dries really hard and polishes nicely with sanding pads.
The blue is Badger AirOpaque 2:1 White and blue. These paints are made for airbrush - so they are fairly thin from the bottle. I have had the Badger paints for over 30 years - still perform great.





I have to admit some streaks and lumps are from my sanding and filling of the bodywork.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefly wrote:
First try at brush painting. (Decaling in progress now.) The Tamiya white settles smooth and glossy. I did not thin enough and got some brush marks. However, the acrylic paint dries really hard and polishes nicely with sanding pads.
The blue is Badger AirOpaque 2:1 White and blue. These paints are made for airbrush - so they are fairly thin from the bottle. I have had the Badger paints for over 30 years - still perform great.





I have to admit some streaks and lumps are from my sanding and filling of the bodywork.


Wow , Bill. That turned out awesome. Better then most rattle can or air brush jobs I have seen on here lately. I cant wait to do my first body with the brush and acrylic paint. Hoping it turns out as good as yours.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
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Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill,
I am impressed with your result using Tamiya. Much better than my results with this brand.
The problem I had was the hot behavior of this paint. The first color coat was smooth but as I went for the second coat I was running after my tail chasing coverage at the expense of smoothness.
I tried reducing with their thinner, water, IPA in various combinations but ultimately failed.
Congratulations for figuring out how to brush paint with Tamiya acrylics
..applause
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Firefly



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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
Bill,

The problem I had was the hot behavior of this paint. ...


Yes - the hot nature is also an issue when contacting a less hot brand. When brushing a coat of Tamiya Clear over the Badger blue (which is matte finish). I had to be careful not to scrub away the blue. Touching up white over blue mask-bleed spots also dissolved the blue.

Observations: The Tamiya went on well with a wet heavy coat - settled nice and glossy. I rotated the body for a couple of minutes after brushing to avoid runs.

It dries so quickly out of the bottle though. If you have skills brushing Future, those moves are pretty much what you need to use here.

I was impressed with how hard a finish you get with acrylics. The paint does polish to a nice shine.

Thanks for the compliments!
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
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Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefly wrote:
Pierre Rivard wrote:
Bill,

The problem I had was the hot behavior of this paint. ...


Yes - the hot nature is also an issue when contacting a less hot brand. When brushing a coat of Tamiya Clear over the Badger blue (which is matte finish). I had to be careful not to scrub away the blue. Touching up white over blue mask-bleed spots also dissolved the blue.

Observations: The Tamiya went on well with a wet heavy coat - settled nice and glossy. I rotated the body for a couple of minutes after brushing to avoid runs.

It dries so quickly out of the bottle though. If you have skills brushing Future, those moves are pretty much what you need to use here.

I was impressed with how hard a finish you get with acrylics. The paint does polish to a nice shine.

Thanks for the compliments!


I think I understand how you are making this work better than I did.
Back then I was not priming my bodies leading to a need for multiple color coats, challenging with a hot paint that bites into it's previous layers
So assuming the body has been primed white, 1 thick coat of Tamiya color would suffice?
Any advice on thinning mediums, if any used?
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:

So assuming the body has been primed white, 1 thick coat of Tamiya color would suffice?
Any advice on thinning mediums, if any used?


White over white primer is an optimal scenario for certain. And the acrylic covers the lacquer primer nicely. As far as process, I think 'shaken, not stirred' might be best way to describe how this happened. I simply shook the Tamiya bottle for the first coat - and it went down smooth. On a following coat, in which I stirred the paint, the thicker nature was making more brush marks.
More of an observation than a scientific method!

On this other body, it got two coats over white primer. Have not polished this one yet.

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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefly wrote:
Pierre Rivard wrote:

So assuming the body has been primed white, 1 thick coat of Tamiya color would suffice?
Any advice on thinning mediums, if any used?


White over white primer is an optimal scenario for certain. And the acrylic covers the lacquer primer nicely. As far as process, I think 'shaken, not stirred' might be best way to describe how this happened. I simply shook the Tamiya bottle for the first coat - and it went down smooth. On a following coat, in which I stirred the paint, the thicker nature was making more brush marks.
More of an observation than a scientific method!

On this other body, it got two coats over white primer. Have not polished this one yet.


Wow, Bill. If you got that result without polishing , do you think you actually have to? those are some amazing results with a brush for sure. And just think, you didn't have to spray under a booth or wait for good weather outside to do it. That's the main reason I hope I can get half the results you and Pierre are getting. I can paint anytime I want to without worrying about the weather or setting up my airbrush and then having to clean it. All of these are things I dont like about model building. And now I dont have to try to match a color in a bottle to what I need . I can just mix it in the pallette till it matches.
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AndyS



Joined: 30 Jan 2019
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefly wrote:
Pierre Rivard wrote:

So assuming the body has been primed white, 1 thick coat of Tamiya color would suffice?
Any advice on thinning mediums, if any used?


White over white primer is an optimal scenario for certain. And the acrylic covers the lacquer primer nicely. As far as process, I think 'shaken, not stirred' might be best way to describe how this happened. I simply shook the Tamiya bottle for the first coat - and it went down smooth. On a following coat, in which I stirred the paint, the thicker nature was making more brush marks.
More of an observation than a scientific method!

On this other body, it got two coats over white primer. Have not polished this one yet.


Nice paint jobs from everyone, this really would make it possible to paint indoors and in all seasons.

Bill (Firefly), You mention white over white primer, which white lacquer primer did you use? Tamiya white primer or something else?

Also, Tamiya makes an acrylic paint retarder (Tamiya USA TAM87114 Paint Retarder (Acrylic) 40Ml) which is supposed to slow down the drying rate on the water-based acrylic paints and make it easier to get brushstroke-free paint jobs. I saw it mentioned in a youtube video on brush painting.

Has anybody tried this retarder with the Tamiya acrylic brush paints? Does it make a smooth finish easier?

https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-America-Retarder-Acrylic-TAM87114/dp/B002TZVZE4


Last edited by AndyS on Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndyS wrote:


Bill (Firefly), You mention white over white primer, which white lacquer primer did you use? Tamiya white primer or something else?

Also, Tamiya makes an acrylic paint retarder (Tamiya USA TAM87114 Paint Retarder (Acrylic) 40Ml) which is supposed to slow down the drying rate on the water-based acrylic paints and make it easier to get brushstroke-free paint jobs. I saw it mentioned in a youtube video on brush painting.

Has anybody tried this retarder with the Tamiya acrylic brush paints? Does it a smooth finish easier?


The white primer is Tamiya spray lacquer.

I have the Tamiya Retarder and have used it on matte military schemes when mixing very small amounts of paint that I did not want to dry out in the mixing process. It works really well. Did not use it on these bodies, but I would not hesitate to try it.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally got around to priming my latest build. the Vallejo primer went on a little thick out of the bottle so I think I will reduce it a little for the next coat. the primer dries really hard so I think I will have to use a stronger grit then I use for tamiya primer. I think its going to work out pretty good though with the brush as well as the final color.









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Pierre Rivard



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this will work out really good. Without thinning you will get the filling you need.
I assume you will sand down and recoat with thinned primer?
Thanks for sharing, this is a bit different from what I have done. Looks very promising.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
I think this will work out really good. Without thinning you will get the filling you need.
I assume you will sand down and recoat with thinned primer?
Thanks for sharing, this is a bit different from what I have done. Looks very promising.


Thanks , Pierre. How many drops of thinner to primer would you recommend for my next coat of primer. I need it to flow out better then with no thinner which caused pretty bad bristle valleys from the brush which is making the sanding step longer and more labor intensive. Thanks for your reply.
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Pierre Rivard



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
Pierre Rivard wrote:
I think this will work out really good. Without thinning you will get the filling you need.
I assume you will sand down and recoat with thinned primer?
Thanks for sharing, this is a bit different from what I have done. Looks very promising.


Thanks , Pierre. How many drops of thinner to primer would you recommend for my next coat of primer. I need it to flow out better then with no thinner which caused pretty bad bristle valleys from the brush which is making the sanding step longer and more labor intensive. Thanks for your reply.


From memory... since I have not built anything since March, I thin the primer with a few drops of water. Say 10-25% reduction.
Suggest you do some testing to see what works best for your needs.
I tend to thin more and do 2 to 3 coats. Less hiding but zero brush marks that way.
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MarkJ



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
MarkJ wrote:
Pierre Rivard wrote:
I think this will work out really good. Without thinning you will get the filling you need.
I assume you will sand down and recoat with thinned primer?
Thanks for sharing, this is a bit different from what I have done. Looks very promising.


Thanks , Pierre. How many drops of thinner to primer would you recommend for my next coat of primer. I need it to flow out better then with no thinner which caused pretty bad bristle valleys from the brush which is making the sanding step longer and more labor intensive. Thanks for your reply.


From memory... since I have not built anything since March, I thin the primer with a few drops of water. Say 10-25% reduction.
Suggest you do some testing to see what works best for your needs.
I tend to thin more and do 2 to 3 coats. Less hiding but zero brush marks that way.



Thanks Pierre, for your reply. I would definitely like to have to do more coats then have to sand off brush marks. I will keep adding water drops till I get to a formula that will allow me to do that. I had to go down to 600 grit sandpaper to cut into this really hard primer. you could sand all day with 1500 paper and hardly do anything to remove the brush marks. Thats way to labor intensive for my liking.
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jchrisf



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
I agree, this does meet the standard. I use Vallejo for most of my work but not for small metallic engine, exhaust or suspension parts. Tamiya acrylics for those.
Attached are 2 pics showing some of the products and results
How I do parts I want to look weathered, tarnished or raw.
1- base color is done with FLAT Tamiya paints. Typically 1 part metallic color with 2 part solid color to avoid the toyish silver look.
Usually XF-16 alu with XF-66 gray but sometimes some flat black when I want a darker finish
I thin with a bit of X-20A thinner to get good flow, do a coat, wait 2-3 minutes and add 1-2 drops of water to my leftover paint for a quick second coat
This avoids the second coat to bite into the first (Tamiya...)
2- After drying of 1-2 hours I rub the part with a cotton swab to bring out the metallic a bit
3- I then give it a wash with Vallejo 76.521 or 76.523
4- After drying I use Tamiya weathering masters to highlight certain areas like soot (on master B) for end of exhaust dumps or burn blue or red (on master D) for exhaust bend heat stress effect.
[url
[/url


Pierre, I am curious what paint brush you use for your detail work.. especially the small stuff like around the molded in reservoirs on the firewall?
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jchrisf



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last night I found what I thought was a great resource for the brush painter's society so I thought I'd share it here.

I have always airbrushed everything but after seeing Clay Kemp do some detail painting with a paint brush I thought it would be a good skill to acquire to improve my model building detail. I tried it last night and found it to be harder than it looked. That lead me to a search on YT and I found this guy's channel. IMO he has some great tips and tricks on brush painting. I hope you all find it helpful too. I'll just post a couple that I thought were more relevant to this thread but his Hobby Cheating series seems to be a great resource.

What's the best metal paint was very informative for me being a car modeler and he opened my eyes to how great metal paints also show shadows
https://youtu.be/DmFhmliPEL8

Brush control
https://youtu.be/Q7Hzt9Omfbo
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jchrisf



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh.. one more... brush on chrome Cool
https://youtu.be/DRugMMqcuIM
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Jchrisf. Very informative videos. Especially liked the brush on chrome product from Spain.
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jchrisf



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
Thanks, Jchrisf. Very informative videos. Especially liked the brush on chrome product from Spain.


Yeah Mark, that brush on chrome is a game changer.

Barbatos Rex thought the airbrush bottle was better than Alclad.

Speaking of Barbatos Rex, he recently did a video on these paint markers that look like they would be perfect for detail work
https://youtu.be/IZHLZ3faqv0
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jchrisf wrote:
Pierre Rivard wrote:
I agree, this does meet the standard. I use Vallejo for most of my work but not for small metallic engine, exhaust or suspension parts. Tamiya acrylics for those.
Attached are 2 pics showing some of the products and results
How I do parts I want to look weathered, tarnished or raw.
1- base color is done with FLAT Tamiya paints. Typically 1 part metallic color with 2 part solid color to avoid the toyish silver look.
Usually XF-16 alu with XF-66 gray but sometimes some flat black when I want a darker finish
I thin with a bit of X-20A thinner to get good flow, do a coat, wait 2-3 minutes and add 1-2 drops of water to my leftover paint for a quick second coat
This avoids the second coat to bite into the first (Tamiya...)
2- After drying of 1-2 hours I rub the part with a cotton swab to bring out the metallic a bit
3- I then give it a wash with Vallejo 76.521 or 76.523
4- After drying I use Tamiya weathering masters to highlight certain areas like soot (on master B) for end of exhaust dumps or burn blue or red (on master D) for exhaust bend heat stress effect.
[url
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Pierre, I am curious what paint brush you use for your detail work.. especially the small stuff like around the molded in reservoirs on the firewall?


Hi Jchrisf,
Here's a picture of the types I use. The larger flat brush I have already documented before. It is good quality and I use it for body painting.
All other brushes are cheap craft store syntetic bristle. I use the angled flat brushes the most for various work.
The super thin point brushes I use for window trim and other very small details.

[url[/url]
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jchrisf wrote:
Last night I found what I thought was a great resource for the brush painter's society so I thought I'd share it here.

I have always airbrushed everything but after seeing Clay Kemp do some detail painting with a paint brush I thought it would be a good skill to acquire to improve my model building detail. I tried it last night and found it to be harder than it looked. That lead me to a search on YT and I found this guy's channel. IMO he has some great tips and tricks on brush painting. I hope you all find it helpful too. I'll just post a couple that I thought were more relevant to this thread but his Hobby Cheating series seems to be a great resource.

What's the best metal paint was very informative for me being a car modeler and he opened my eyes to how great metal paints also show shadows
https://youtu.be/DmFhmliPEL8

Brush control
https://youtu.be/Q7Hzt9Omfbo


Great stuff. Metal paint is always fun but challenging. But you gotta start with paint that works!
I definitely plan to expand my use of Vallejo Metal Color but so far I have been successful with it only on small surfaces like carbs, plumbing and window trim. Need to work at it more I guess.
Thanks for sharing your discoveries!
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jchrisf



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
jchrisf wrote:
Pierre Rivard wrote:
I agree, this does meet the standard. I use Vallejo for most of my work but not for small metallic engine, exhaust or suspension parts. Tamiya acrylics for those.
Attached are 2 pics showing some of the products and results
How I do parts I want to look weathered, tarnished or raw.
1- base color is done with FLAT Tamiya paints. Typically 1 part metallic color with 2 part solid color to avoid the toyish silver look.
Usually XF-16 alu with XF-66 gray but sometimes some flat black when I want a darker finish
I thin with a bit of X-20A thinner to get good flow, do a coat, wait 2-3 minutes and add 1-2 drops of water to my leftover paint for a quick second coat
This avoids the second coat to bite into the first (Tamiya...)
2- After drying of 1-2 hours I rub the part with a cotton swab to bring out the metallic a bit
3- I then give it a wash with Vallejo 76.521 or 76.523
4- After drying I use Tamiya weathering masters to highlight certain areas like soot (on master B) for end of exhaust dumps or burn blue or red (on master D) for exhaust bend heat stress effect.


Pierre, I am curious what paint brush you use for your detail work.. especially the small stuff like around the molded in reservoirs on the firewall?


Hi Jchrisf,
Here's a picture of the types I use. The larger flat brush I have already documented before. It is good quality and I use it for body painting.
All other brushes are cheap craft store syntetic bristle. I use the angled flat brushes the most for various work.
The super thin point brushes I use for window trim and other very small details.



Thanks Pierre, I have a couple of detail brushes similar to that I will try.
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jchrisf



Joined: 11 Jul 2018
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
jchrisf wrote:
Last night I found what I thought was a great resource for the brush painter's society so I thought I'd share it here.

I have always airbrushed everything but after seeing Clay Kemp do some detail painting with a paint brush I thought it would be a good skill to acquire to improve my model building detail. I tried it last night and found it to be harder than it looked. That lead me to a search on YT and I found this guy's channel. IMO he has some great tips and tricks on brush painting. I hope you all find it helpful too. I'll just post a couple that I thought were more relevant to this thread but his Hobby Cheating series seems to be a great resource.

What's the best metal paint was very informative for me being a car modeler and he opened my eyes to how great metal paints also show shadows
https://youtu.be/DmFhmliPEL8

Brush control
https://youtu.be/Q7Hzt9Omfbo


Great stuff. Metal paint is always fun but challenging. But you gotta start with paint that works!
I definitely plan to expand my use of Vallejo Metal Color but so far I have been successful with it only on small surfaces like carbs, plumbing and window trim. Need to work at it more I guess.
Thanks for sharing your discoveries!


Yeah, I hear you there. I couldn't get the metal colors I was trying last night to flow very well and then read later that you used Tamiya. I had some and didn't try it.

I also noticed that the guy in the figurine painting videos uses a wet pallet. I need to figure out how to do one.
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I think I've primed enough on this one. I'm going to try actual color on it today , maybe. Wish me luck.







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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good Mark. I look forward to seing results of your color coats
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I got some of my stuff out of storage (no builds since March).
I went back to my notes from past experiments to see how I could improve my finishes.
So using a test body I will attempt a worst case scenario...BLACK! Shocked
I've recently added primers and will do so again.
I've not been successful polishing color coats but I will see how this goes.
First step is the primer. Vallejo Panzer Gray (almost black), 12 drops with 3 drops water thinning.

[url[/url]
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Second coat primer after 30 minutes dry time
I thinned less - 2 drops water instead of 3 and it may have been a bit of a mistake - some light brush marks

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So I have decided on a third coat to make room for a bit of light sanding.
Third coat I went back to 12 and 3 ratios.
The brush marks can't really be felt to the touch so they are either shallow or more of a sheen variation.
Either way I think some light sanding polishing should suffice
I will let the body sit for 2-3 days before attempting any sanding

[url[/url]
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre, so with primer its not a 50:50 mix with thinner. Its 12 drops primer to 3 drops water. so primer is a completely different animal then paint? Interesting. So you waited 30 minutes between primer coats. Can you also wait 30 minutes between color coats? I did my first color coat on the Camaro and I mixed it 10 drops whjte to 1 drop yellow to eleven drops medium thinner and two drops distilled water. I put the paint on and thought this is going to be bad because I saw what looked like grit in the paint and brush marks but when it dried it was like a miracle . It was smooth and no brush marks or grit looking things in the paint. I was so relieved. It looked flat like acrylics always look but thats what the clear is for. To give it gloss. I'm pretty happy with what I think the final results will be. Thanks for your guidance, it is very much appreciated.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
Pierre, so with primer its not a 50:50 mix with thinner. Its 12 drops primer to 3 drops water. so primer is a completely different animal then paint? Interesting. So you waited 30 minutes between primer coats. Can you also wait 30 minutes between color coats? I did my first color coat on the Camaro and I mixed it 10 drops whjte to 1 drop yellow to eleven drops medium thinner and two drops distilled water. I put the paint on and thought this is going to be bad because I saw what looked like grit in the paint and brush marks but when it dried it was like a miracle . It was smooth and no brush marks or grit looking things in the paint. I was so relieved. It looked flat like acrylics always look but thats what the clear is for. To give it gloss. I'm pretty happy with what I think the final results will be. Thanks for your guidance, it is very much appreciated.


To be honest I don't know why I don't use the medium thinner with the primer.
For some reason I may have been under the impression that they were not made for each other but I may be absolutely wrong. I just don't remember...
Nobody taught me how to do this, just trial and error.
I do know that the medium thinner was the breakthrough for me when it came to base coat colors.
That's why I started the Brush Painter Society, to share our discoveries. I feel I have so much more to learn!
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
MarkJ wrote:
Pierre, so with primer its not a 50:50 mix with thinner. Its 12 drops primer to 3 drops water. so primer is a completely different animal then paint? Interesting. So you waited 30 minutes between primer coats. Can you also wait 30 minutes between color coats? I did my first color coat on the Camaro and I mixed it 10 drops whjte to 1 drop yellow to eleven drops medium thinner and two drops distilled water. I put the paint on and thought this is going to be bad because I saw what looked like grit in the paint and brush marks but when it dried it was like a miracle . It was smooth and no brush marks or grit looking things in the paint. I was so relieved. It looked flat like acrylics always look but thats what the clear is for. To give it gloss. I'm pretty happy with what I think the final results will be. Thanks for your guidance, it is very much appreciated.


To be honest I don't know why I don't use the medium thinner with the primer.
For some reason I may have been under the impression that they were not made for each other but I may be absolutely wrong. I just don't remember...
Nobody taught me how to do this, just trial and error.
I do know that the medium thinner was the breakthrough for me when it came to base coat colors.
That's why I started the Brush Painter Society, to share our discoveries. I feel I have so much more to learn!


Well it seems to me from the results you get you have learned quite a lot. Your models are stunning. I'm hoping to get half of the results you get. Also , how long should I wait between color coats for the Camaro? I have 2 more to do. Thanks again for your guidance.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drying between coats is quick. I usually wait 30 minutes.
However if you work in a high humidity environment more time maybe needed.
I read on various sites that dry to the touch may not mean fully dry for acrylics since there is no chemical binding, just water evaporation.
This is why with my current experiment I stick to 30 minutes between color coats, but I will give 24-48 hours dry time after the final coat of primer before sanding, and the same after the last coat of color and so on.
This extra time is sort of new for me, experimenting to improve my finishes.
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre Rivard wrote:
Drying between coats is quick. I usually wait 30 minutes.
However if you work in a high humidity environment more time maybe needed.
I read on various sites that dry to the touch may not mean fully dry for acrylics since there is no chemical binding, just water evaporation.
This is why with my current experiment I stick to 30 minutes between color coats, but I will give 24-48 hours dry time after the final coat of primer before sanding, and the same after the last coat of color and so on.
This extra time is sort of new for me, experimenting to improve my finishes.


Thanks, Pierre. So today I can do my last 2 coats with a 30 minute wait time between. That sounds great. I will definitely wait a couple of days before I sand it, if necessary. I was wondering if vallejo made a sandable clear, if I felt like polishing that clear before I added the pledge/future clear?
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MarkJ



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierre, I was looking at your primer study and have a couple of questions. What is that blue I'm seeing on the model and what color is the dark gray primer going to be a base for? Thanks.
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
Pierre, I was looking at your primer study and have a couple of questions. What is that blue I'm seeing on the model and what color is the dark gray primer going to be a base for? Thanks.


The blue is just reflected light from adjacent window.
For this test I am using the 70.603 dark gray primer, the plan is to do a black topcoat
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Pierre Rivard



Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
Pierre Rivard wrote:
Drying between coats is quick. I usually wait 30 minutes.
However if you work in a high humidity environment more time maybe needed.
I read on various sites that dry to the touch may not mean fully dry for acrylics since there is no chemical binding, just water evaporation.
This is why with my current experiment I stick to 30 minutes between color coats, but I will give 24-48 hours dry time after the final coat of primer before sanding, and the same after the last coat of color and so on.
This extra time is sort of new for me, experimenting to improve my finishes.


Thanks, Pierre. So today I can do my last 2 coats with a 30 minute wait time between. That sounds great. I will definitely wait a couple of days before I sand it, if necessary. I was wondering if vallejo made a sandable clear, if I felt like polishing that clear before I added the pledge/future clear?


I see on Vallejo site that they have 2 types of gloss varnishes, acrylic or polyurethane, both waterbased.
I have never tried them.
I am intrigued by this. Are you thinking the Vallejo clear would be more polishable than the Future?
I do have a concern about polishing Future (a bit tender) so I am interested in alternatives too.
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