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C5HM
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 119
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BVAUGHN
Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 504
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 Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Hi Dr Craft!
Thanks for the post. Saw the car in the FB post Doug Schellinger did on The Amelia car show in Florida last weekend. A bunch of AWESOME authentic racers
Bill |
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jjsipes
Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 298
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Great looking car. I have future plans to be a model of this car. Thanks for the reference pics. |
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wildbill72
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 112
Location: Grand Rapids, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome post. Thanks for sharing.
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WILD Bill Motorsports, LLC |
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C5HM
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
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Racer14
Joined: 13 Feb 2018
Posts: 282
Location: Rockford, IL
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Another amazing restoration! What is crazy is that Holman-Moody letter wherein they sold the new car to Bowani for just $1.00, offered to return the sales tax to them (on a buck), and would buy it back 12 months later for the original $1. I cant imagine a deal like that today! |
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C5HM
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Racer14 wrote: | | Another amazing restoration! What is crazy is that Holman-Moody letter wherein they sold the new car to Bowani for just $1.00, offered to return the sales tax to them (on a buck), and would buy it back 12 months later for the original $1. I cant imagine a deal like that today! |
Dollar contracts were the norm for all H&M cars that were not raced "in house" during the factory period. Unlike the Mopar teams, Fomoco teams did NOT own their cars. They "leased" them for one dollar and had to turn them in at the end of each season. Petty, for example, got the three Torinos he did in 69 under the same type of dollar contracts. And he had to turn them in when he went back to Plymouth in 70 (Whereas, when he left for Ford at the end of 68, he kept his Road Runners and sold them to Jabe Thomas). |
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Firefly
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 810
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2022 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| C5HM wrote: | | Racer14 wrote: | | Another amazing restoration! What is crazy is that Holman-Moody letter wherein they sold the new car to Bowani for just $1.00, offered to return the sales tax to them (on a buck), and would buy it back 12 months later for the original $1. I cant imagine a deal like that today! |
Dollar contracts were the norm for all H&M cars that were not raced "in house" during the factory period. Unlike the Mopar teams, Fomoco teams did NOT own their cars. They "leased" them for one dollar and had to turn them in at the end of each season. Petty, for example, got the three Torinos he did in 69 under the same type of dollar contracts. And he had to turn them in when he went back to Plymouth in 70 (Whereas, when he left for Ford at the end of 68, he kept his Road Runners and sold them to Jabe Thomas). |
So, I am assuming that for the agreement to be structured as a lease, legally, an amount of money needs to be exchanged. Is that it?
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Bill Jobson is my real name. |
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C5HM
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Firefly wrote: | | C5HM wrote: | | Racer14 wrote: | | Another amazing restoration! What is crazy is that Holman-Moody letter wherein they sold the new car to Bowani for just $1.00, offered to return the sales tax to them (on a buck), and would buy it back 12 months later for the original $1. I cant imagine a deal like that today! |
Dollar contracts were the norm for all H&M cars that were not raced "in house" during the factory period. Unlike the Mopar teams, Fomoco teams did NOT own their cars. They "leased" them for one dollar and had to turn them in at the end of each season. Petty, for example, got the three Torinos he did in 69 under the same type of dollar contracts. And he had to turn them in when he went back to Plymouth in 70 (Whereas, when he left for Ford at the end of 68, he kept his Road Runners and sold them to Jabe Thomas). |
So, I am assuming that for the agreement to be structured as a lease, legally, an amount of money needs to be exchanged. Is that it? |
The operative word is sale...not lease. HM sold the car to the team for one dollar; the team sold the car back to HM for one dollar at season's end. I am sure that was some sort of liability dodge...in the case a car careened into the bleachers and killed a Brownie Scout troop or some such. |
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bangor boy
Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 451
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like both mufflers are shot.
What caliber did you use?  |
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odcics2
Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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John -
What are your engine specs?
thanks. |
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C5HM
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="odcics2"]John -
What are your engine specs?
thanks.[/quote
I built the 427 Tunnel Port in the car to 1968 specs and did not use any modern upgrades (like roller rockers or a roller cam, or modern light weight rods). It features dual four barrel, 660 cfm carbs (as were run/legal in 1968) 12:1 CR; LeMans rods, stock forged 427 crank and basically a stock Tunnel Port valve train and induction system (shaft mounted Fomoco rockers, a flat tappet "road race" type cam similar in profile to what HM listed in its catalog in the late 60s and a single plane 8V high rise Grand National intake). I did upgrade the ignition a bit. I installed a hidden MSD box that signals a Petronix converted 427 dual point distributor. No real HP gain there. But MUCH better starting and running behavior than if I had found/run the unobtanium original Fomoco stuff.
On the dyno the engine produced 525 HP using the "modern" dyno correction factor employed at present. A slightly different correction factor was used in the late 60s (I confirmed this with Wadell Wilson during speedweeks, BTW) and using that metric the engine would have been rated at 540 or so HP. The use of a period spec oval track/super speedway type cam would have produced 30-40 more top end HP. Current plans for the car call for mostly show duty, so I went with the slightly milder road course type cam, with an eye towards easy starting and better low rpm running. Since I am not Waddell Wilson or Robert Yates, I am pretty happy with the result. If I had their skills, I am quite sure I would/could have gotten more HP out of the engine.
BTW For comparison purposes, the very similar "detuned" 8V 427 TP engines used in GT-40 MkIVs to win LeMans in 1967 made around 485 HP with a similar cam and a lower profile, dual plane dual carb intake. The NASCAR spec Boss 429 engines that replaced the 427 TP engines under Fomoco hoods in 1969 made between 600 and 650 NASCAR legal HP back in the day depending upon cam and header tuning. |
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George Andrews
Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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I've read in the H-M book that Ford was more concerned about reliability than outright horsepower in their LeMans program. The results speak for themselves.  |
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jh63fan
Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 351
Location: Tarheel State
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| I just wanted to say thanks to Dr. Craft for the time and knowledge he so willingly shares with this forum. Since he first responded to my inquiry about 1967 Fairlanes, I have acquired several of his books, some Holman-Moody books and have really became interested in this era of racing. |
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