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what is the point of the Salvino kits ?????? I don't get it?

 
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LastoftheV8



Joined: 05 Feb 2018
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:08 pm    Post subject: what is the point of the Salvino kits ?????? I don't get it? Reply with quote

I'm speaking specifically of the Regal, 85 Monte, 84 Grand Prix not the 442 or 79 monte

They seem to be a carbon copy of the Monogram kits. Did Salvino just buy the molds and rights to repop these?

The monogram versions are plentiful on ebay, still sealed in either singular or combo form. so I'm not sure why pay 32+ for the salvino kits which have all the flaws and fitment issues, that frustrate me, as well as many of you by reading the forums

And if Salvino didn't just buy the molds and in fact created their own, why the heck didn't they fix anything? i.e. making the front and rear fascias plus the body all one piece??? or the nonsense rear axle bell house attachment features, or lack their of. just to name a few...

Maybe I just don't get the point of modeling? is it just part of the hobby to have to putty, sand, file, refit to fix a kits issues ?
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Pat Redmond
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Salvinos JR owns the old Monogram tooling and will be releasing kits from that tooling with decals not previously released under the Monogram or Revell names.
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R.J.



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep and don't knock it if you want the 2022 race car in a kit because if you like modern kits the old ones are what is going to pay the bills to get modern Nascar kits made by them in the next few years.
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are our own worst enemy....
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Mack



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis O wrote:
We are our own worst enemy....


Yep. Nobody has been forced to buy anything. One needs to look no further than this forum to determine there is not a kit producer that can produce a suitable kit. Buy it, build it, or don't. I honestly do not remember a perfect kit.
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Pat Redmond
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mack wrote:
Dennis O wrote:
We are our own worst enemy....


Yep. Nobody has been forced to buy anything. One needs to look no further than this forum to determine there is not a kit producer that can produce a suitable kit. Buy it, build it, or don't. I honestly do not remember a perfect kit.


Well said.... BOTH of you.
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spooker



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat Redmond wrote:
Mack wrote:
Dennis O wrote:
We are our own worst enemy....


Yep. Nobody has been forced to buy anything. One needs to look no further than this forum to determine there is not a kit producer that can produce a suitable kit. Buy it, build it, or don't. I honestly do not remember a perfect kit.


Well said.... BOTH of you.


Yes, but....most other aspects of our lives continually move forward and progress by embracing all the new technologies available, so why shouldn't we expect the same from this hobby (most other hobbies HAVE moved forward, just look at model railroading!)? I get the idea that they needed to get some kits into production, using the old Monogram tools, to generate profits to go towards new tools, but I'm also sure that just a few tweaks to the Mono tools and some better 3D modeling for the new tools would have increased the long-term profitability of the company.

Brian
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salvinos is a REAL enigma to me. They are doing thigs that we all were told were IMPOSSIBLE. Designing, cutting and molding model car kits in the USA....in California of all places.....and hard place to do business.
But they resisted ANY outside help at first which caused the errors on the OLDS kit which they then had to 'FIX' but then ended up fixing the just as incorrectly.
AMT trailing arms VS Salvinoos 'fix'. PERFECT 1/32 scale parts.

But then Salvinos is going places no one else is cilling to go. They are filling gaps we have wanted for years. So far they all have issues.....but IMHO they are all fix-able by those that care to and for those happy as is....fine too.

I think the make or break will be the Dodge Charger. If not better than all previous efforts....many may be done with them. We will see. Right now I have bought at least one each......to support more than anything.
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Mack



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spooker wrote:
Pat Redmond wrote:
Mack wrote:
Dennis O wrote:
We are our own worst enemy....


Yep. Nobody has been forced to buy anything. One needs to look no further than this forum to determine there is not a kit producer that can produce a suitable kit. Buy it, build it, or don't. I honestly do not remember a perfect kit.


Well said.... BOTH of you.


Yes, but....most other aspects of our lives continually move forward and progress by embracing all the new technologies available, so why shouldn't we expect the same from this hobby (most other hobbies HAVE moved forward, just look at model railroading!)? I get the idea that they needed to get some kits into production, using the old Monogram tools, to generate profits to go towards new tools, but I'm also sure that just a few tweaks to the Mono tools and some better 3D modeling for the new tools would have increased the long-term profitability of the company.

Brian


Agreed. But in my view, all businesses live or die based on their choices. If the consuming public chooses not to buy their product, so be it. In our hobby the consuming market is small. Unlike the soft drink market which is huge on a global scale. As far as I know Salvinos is the only kit producer making older NASCAR kits. So it's in my interest to support them. Are their offerings perfect? No. But I remember the excitement when Polar Lights entered the vintage stock car market. Those kits required patience and massaging. But I've seen some stunning builds with those kits. How involved is Polar Lights now? I do wish Salvinos would accept some advise from guys like Dave Van. He's no stranger to the plastic/ NASCAR business. It could only benefit Salvinos. Can they listen to everyone? No. They would never bring a kit to market in that scenario. I hope they succeed. It's in all of our interest.
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Steve Salhany



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some awfully dismissive words towards a company made up of three guys (that's it) who have put in a ton of time and effort to get out more than 22 different kits to the market, most in schemes and configurations never before available in plastic.




This is their newest release, a car never once available before. I finished it very recently They have the connections to get the licencing, and they produced something I was able to build that looks really cool.

I cannot imagine being offended or upset about what they're doing. If you don't like the subject matter, don't buy them. They appear to be doing very well from what I can see. But I'm just a consumer.

I an incredibly disappointed by the constant negativity here. It's exhausting and it's a big reason I don't come here much any more. I'd rather be building than bitching.
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1fozziebear



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I've bought deep on the kits of all but the straight up re-issues (got lots of those originals). The 1970s MC, Olds and 2+2 and flat nose MC.

TBH my take on ALL kits is it is what you put into it. honestly I remember when some Russian 1/35 stuff came in the country in the late 1990s. Holy crap tons of flash, general proportions but unique and never before available. i was happy to get them. I consider it good couple hours of modeling when I have white dust (plastic) all over my jeans, green squadron putty on my thumb and a slight headache from Tamiya Extra Thin cement.

I just remind myself it's a clone, a facsimile of something real. there have been models that I stopped working on because the effort wasn't worth it. The Salvinos don't fall into that category.

Anybody want a couple each resin 2+2 and 1974 MC bodies let me know. no reason to mess with resin if the plastic is available.

My only complaint is the retail price on Monogram molds but being in CA it makes sense. Their COGS is probably somewhere in the $7-9 for the damn things.

That's my long .02 Happy modeling to all no matter what.
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67chevelle



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:53 am    Post subject: Salvino kits Reply with quote

Ok here goes my 2 cents, I agree with what Mack had to say, no one has forced anyone to buy these kits. With that said im 57 years old started building models at the age 10, with the current economy the way it is im excited that someone would spend there time, money and thoughts to bring new or re-issued kits into todays world. If you do not like the kits good and fine, don't buy no more, the negative comments on here about the Salvino kits would kill anyones thought about doing anything to help model builders out. ok its a plastic model if it don't fit tweek it to make it fit if it does not look right work with it. Me and a good friend of mine bought the Gray Ghost kit from salvino, #1 its NOT PERFECT and yes it had a few issues that was corrected with time and patiences, but the end result was a good looking model. I appreciate anyone willing to give us modelers a new kit or a re-issue kit this hobby is kept alive by us builders that is in the age range 30 to 50 PLUS after were gone then the hobby is gone. My 2 cents don't mean anything to anyone im just trying to say LOOK GUYS FIX THE MODEL TO YOUR LIKING and just keep building. Thanks Jeff Marsh, I know ill get flack over this but I call it the way I see it.
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spooker



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone in this thread, on both sides of the discussion, make excellent points. My final post here is this:

As one of the "older" modelers, I want to complete a bunch of models before I can't do it anymore. I spent my working years taking many months, sometimes years, to complete projects. Now that I'm retired, (thank you Covid, I'm serious!) I want to build, build, build, not correct, correct, correct. I can do all the work necessary on these kits, but I don't WANT to anymore, not on every car, especially when they cost as much as they do. I want to spend my time doing better paint jobs than ever and perfect my decalling abilities. I still scratchbuild and modify kits, but they populate one side of my bench and are fewer and farther between than my OOB projects. They get attention when I'm waiting for paint to dry or just hit a rough patch on my "normal" builds. I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed actually finishing things in a reasonable time, something I was unable to do for 40 years! I'll take a quality, accurate kit over one that needs a lot of modifying any day, and I'm willing to pay for that, too.

Brian
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Gary66
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pointing our errors and showing how they can be fixed is not negative talk. I think about all of us have went out of our way to speak appreciation for these kits. But it is frustrating in the CNC world we live in that they can miss body lines so badly. That's not bashing them, it's just the way it is.
I agree that the Charger/Roadrunners will be a big deal if they miss on those, Mopar guys are not very forgiving .
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..agree
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Joe Oteri



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm one of the ringleaders for the negativity towards them here, but I've tried to be supportive with purchases. When the Fluorescent STP sheets became available, I bought directly from them. $6.95 a sheet wasn't the issue; juicing me for $2.50 a sheet shipping was. 5 sheets shipped for $12.50 without any sort of communication or tracking number is absolutely preposterous. Almost $40 for 5 sheets of decals in a cardboard envelope without any sort of padding or backing. I sent them a message and never heard back.

I still can't wrap my head around their chrome choice and tire material. Those 80's kits had so much unnecessary chrome. One of the first things I do on the Monogram issues is strip everything but the bumpers. I've tried to use their tires, but it's almost impossible to sand them and not end up with a gummy mess.

I'm starting to see more negativity directed towards them on Facebook pop up...their bread and butter clientele. Someone was building their 1/25 chassis and had some legitimate questions/concerns about the cage, fitment, and transmission. Jim publicly gave his classic, "If y'all don't like it make a better one yourself." Somebody else responded with a comment of that they're just a glorified Petty fan club selling $40 kits half filled with flash. Laughing

I commend and respect the heck out of them for having the guts and ability to start up a plastic model company without any previous experience, but at some point they're going to hit a wall and need help. Like others have alluded to (myself included), the Chargers are going to be very interesting to see in a few months. Unfortunately they're going over the generic chassis. Personally, I'd love for some day to be able to buy a kit from them and just build it out of the box and not have to extensively modify it to my liking....that part has just become to exhausting and daunting. For the guys who just enjoy building, more power to you. I've said this numerous times but spending $40 on a kit with fundamental issues is just too much for me.
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WR



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark my word as soon if not sooner when the Charger kits come out the same ones aren't going to like them and pick them apart like a buzzard on a gut wagon.
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Rob Spires
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WR wrote:
Mark my word as soon if not sooner when the Charger kits come out the same ones aren't going to like them and pick them apart like a buzzard on a gut wagon.


I reserve the right to like or not like any aspect of any kit by any manufacturer.
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Mack



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Spires wrote:
WR wrote:
Mark my word as soon if not sooner when the Charger kits come out the same ones aren't going to like them and pick them apart like a buzzard on a gut wagon.


I reserve the right to like or not like any aspect of any kit by any manufacturer.


Don't think he questioned your "right". I think his point is the people who have griped from the beginning of all things "Salvinos" will do the same about the Charger.
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Rob Spires
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mack wrote:
Don't think he questioned your "right". I think his point is the people who have griped from the beginning of all things "Salvinos" will do the same about the Charger.


If you read through the threads, there is very little (I hesitate to say none, but I will say very little) griping about “all things” Salvinos. There are specific complaints about specific kits. I don’t think it is deniable that there are accuracy issues with the proportions of several kits. There are some that aren’t bothered by this and some that are.

I’ve seen it said many times that true modelers take what is given and work it into something that suits them. That’s exactly what the Lemans threads we have here are about. There are measurements and different techniques for working with these kits. That is naturally impossible without evaluating the flaws that need to be corrected in the first place.

I’ve been critical, but I’ve also tried to offer praise where I see fit as well. The kits are what they are. Some like them box stock, some put extra work into them for accuracy, and some avoid them. What gets under my skin is the notion that those of us that don’t love the kits are complainers. We’ve evaluated specific issues and pointed out ways to correct them. We’re modelers.
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Mack



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes it not what a person says, it's how they say it. Some of the thoughts shared on this forum seems to call into question Salvinos intelligence. When a person or people make their opinion known, is it needed to be repeated in every thread about Salvinos? If Salvinos offerings are so bad, do not buy them. Make your feelings known, then go out and buy a better kit.
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Rob Spires
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mack wrote:
Make your feelings known, then go out and buy a better kit.


Isn’t it possible to make our feelings known, then work with the kits we have? That’s what I see in the threads. I won’t speak for others, but I’ve tried to be extremely fair in my critiques. If the roof is wrong on two kits, it’s not unreasonable to talk about it in each instance.

My final comment on the matter is just as those who don’t like the kits don’t have to buy them, those that don’t like the threads don’t have to read them.
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Gary66
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disclaimer: I support Salvino's, I have purchased at least 2 or more of each kit that have released except the latest ( Leman's Old Milwaukee) and I will get at least one of those when I can order from one of the suppliers I buy other kits from and get a good shipping deal.

Having said that, my critiques of them are a direct result of being employed in fabrication/manufacturing for 36 years (and counting). I won't get into the issues when the Olds and Monte Carlos were released, it's been covered that they switched gears mid-stream and put out a GM bodied car with a Mopar chassis. It was all new. The Pontiacs are different. All they had to do was tool the body. The chassis was already there. We live in a digital, computer driven age. I worked on parts just today where I had plus/minus .010 inch as my tolerance to work in. The only way to say this is direct and to the point: There is no excuse in the year 2020 to miss on the body lines as much as they did. It's obvious they do a lot of eyeball engineering. That doesn't mean I want them to fail, or dislike them.

This is a model car building site, not a fan club.
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Mack



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on this forum daily. I read every thread that interest me. Generally when a new thread about Salvinos pops up you can count on the same naysayers whining about whatever they're unhappy about today. One of my favorite "stickys" on this forum was Matt Mcanallys " how to" on the Polar Lights Ford's and Mercs. No whining and moaning, just some simple tips and fixes to build a nicer model. It's obvious to me Salvinos is going to do things their way. If it works, good for them. If it don't so be it. Lesson learned maybe. In the mean time I will support them. My "right".
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18degrees



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally i was glad they made the Olds (haven’t built it yet) and Monte Carlo (haven’t built that one yet either) and ecstatic that they did the 2+2. I built one box stock (with 2 more in the stash) and loved how it turned out, “faults” and all. I bought numerous (of their overpriced) modern containment seats, and will buy more when i run out. I have no interest in some of the other stuff that they produced. Really looking forward to the modified they are supposed to be producing... so i can convert it to a dirt car.

Wanna talk about something that was “fixed/updated” that was a real turd... how about the ‘93/94 Lumina? Updated front looks good, but that rear bumper fits poorly and is gonna take a lot of massaging to look right and simply fit properly. Noticed that tonight when i was looking over my ‘94 Brickyard winner project. 💩
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bangor boy



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was that great line that 'close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes'. Obviously not the mantra of your garden variety rivet counter.

Up at our cottage, where we do a lot of our own repair and refurbishing of a wood-frame structure built in '56, the standard attitude is: 'It's within our tolerances.' Followed by the cra-a-ck-fizzz-click of a beer opening.

And that leaves a lot of leeway for cuts just 'this' close to perfect.

I like to think that kits like these - or the more clumsily rendered diecast cars I prefer to dabble in - are a decent starting point. Tweak and twirl where needed and learn to live with the outcome.

Most of my cars sit on shelves many feet removed from where I or my guests will view them. No one's sweating the micro-details. No one is lifting the hood to check the engine or flipping it to assess the chassis.

I might do that someday when grandkids arrive. But not today.
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LastoftheV8



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:17 am    Post subject: so its ok to accept something ? Reply with quote

I'm not denying Salvinos is working hard. but I wholly reject the mantra "be glad they are doing something" or "if you dont' like it, dont' buy it"

I've been working as an engineering/molding for 30 years. Its very simple actually, You model something in CAD software, print out prototypes (a 3d printer isn't expensive) and do test fitments to see where you have gaps or interference out of tolerance. Heck you can do test fitments right in the CAD software. and you rinse repeat process until you have it proper.

given all the fitment issue I"ve experienced, as have you all based on forums, I don't think its bashing Salvinos to ask for better. and I don't agree at all that to make it better is going to require excessive extra financial investment. You could get a contract designer or college intern to re do all these models and fix these issues in no more than a week or two of time at the PC. I've seen it done on far more complex objects than NASCAR models. I'm talking medical implants and so forth.

Believe me I'd love to be supportive of an American company. its just I know these could be out of the park home run. instead I am struggling to get a dam windshield to fit on a Regal that should be a 30 second operation.
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: so its ok to accept something ? Reply with quote

LastoftheV8 wrote:
I'm not denying Salvinos is working hard. but I wholly reject the mantra "be glad they are doing something" or "if you dont' like it, dont' buy it"

I've been working as an engineering/molding for 30 years. Its very simple actually, You model something in CAD software, print out prototypes (a 3d printer isn't expensive) and do test fitments to see where you have gaps or interference out of tolerance. Heck you can do test fitments right in the CAD software. and you rinse repeat process until you have it proper.

given all the fitment issue I"ve experienced, as have you all based on forums, I don't think its bashing Salvinos to ask for better. and I don't agree at all that to make it better is going to require excessive extra financial investment. You could get a contract designer or college intern to re do all these models and fix these issues in no more than a week or two of time at the PC. I've seen it done on far more complex objects than NASCAR models. I'm talking medical implants and so forth.

Believe me I'd love to be supportive of an American company. its just I know these could be out of the park home run. instead I am struggling to get a dam windshield to fit on a Regal that should be a 30 second operation.

Tend to agree........
Not bashing Salvinos.....but my resin kits I DID master and manufacture myself had better fit and finsh than some of Salvinos parts/kits. So yes....I did do it myself.....
My Nissan 300Z IMSA race car kit I did all work on....many parts snapped together fit was so exact.

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Mack



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: so its ok to accept something ? Reply with quote

LastoftheV8 wrote:
I'm not denying Salvinos is working hard. but I wholly reject the mantra "be glad they are doing something" or "if you dont' like it, dont' buy it"

I've been working as an engineering/molding for 30 years. Its very simple actually, You model something in CAD software, print out prototypes (a 3d printer isn't expensive) and do test fitments to see where you have gaps or interference out of tolerance. Heck you can do test fitments right in the CAD software. and you rinse repeat process until you have it proper.

given all the fitment issue I"ve experienced, as have you all based on forums, I don't think its bashing Salvinos to ask for better. and I don't agree at all that to make it better is going to require excessive extra financial investment. You could get a contract designer or college intern to re do all these models and fix these issues in no more than a week or two of time at the PC. I've seen it done on far more complex objects than NASCAR models. I'm talking medical implants and so forth.

Believe me I'd love to be supportive of an American company. its just I know these could be out of the park home run. instead I am struggling to get a dam windshield to fit on a Regal that should be a 30 second operation.


Contact Salvinos and point this out to them. See what they say. Maybe they will heed your advise. Couldn't hurt anything to try.
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DaveVan



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've consulted on may kits from about all the manufactures. I contacted Salvinos twice with offers to help and polite suggestions. First offer was 'start your own model co' the 2nd was ignored. I'm done myself.
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bigryan18



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salvino's does'nt take kindly to constructive criticism I've noticed as I have pm'd them as well
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joe b



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spooker wrote:
Pat Redmond wrote:
Mack wrote:
Dennis O wrote:
We are our own worst enemy....


Yep. Nobody has been forced to buy anything. One needs to look no further than this forum to determine there is not a kit producer that can produce a suitable kit. Buy it, build it, or don't. I honestly do not remember a perfect kit.


Well said.... BOTH of you.


Yes, but....most other aspects of our lives continually move forward and progress by embracing all the new technologies available, so why shouldn't we expect the same from this hobby (most other hobbies HAVE moved forward, just look at model railroading!)? I get the idea that they needed to get some kits into production, using the old Monogram tools, to generate profits to go towards new tools, but I'm also sure that just a few tweaks to the Mono tools and some better 3D modeling for the new tools would have increased the long-term profitability of the company.

Brian


here's the problem brian. there was nothing wrong basically with the monogram tools. some small minor things that the modeler could fix, yes but in general the tools were fine. all they had to do was re pop them and add new decals dut for some reason they (jim i suppose) decided the tools needed tweaking. that is why the roll cages on almost all if not all the recasts sit too low inside of the car. you should nor be able to see the top hoop that the window net attaches to from the outside of the car. it should be tucked up th the underside of the roof. why is this you ask? because they messed with the dimensions of the rooflines and proportions. joe orteri, dave van and others here have documented in photos the flaws or tampering they did with many of the kits plus the inaccuracies built into the 3d modelings that were obvious and simple fixes to at least make an attempt to get it right,
the olds body is wrong
the monte bumpers ad grill is wrong
suspensions on several kits were wrong.
anyone else please feel free to ad to this short list as i have only bought two of their kits

they insist on using "real chrome" on their bumpers despite the modeling comunity asking them to get rid of it
the fact is i think we appreciate the effort they made to give us some of these kits but if they are going to charge what they do for a kit then take constructive criticism and fix the issues and make a better attempt to get the 3d models right before going to production. the prices do not justify the lack of detail- example a chassis that does not fit the bodies in width and length.why don't they fix these things instead of bad mouthing us?
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spooker



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Joe, I wasn't defending their "tweaks" as such, I was just suggesting that, at this point in time (and technology), any changes they made should be an improvement, if anything! I agree that the monogram kits were pretty "state-of-the-art" when new, and could be built relatively easily into decent replicas.
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Gary66
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Joined: 27 Jan 2018
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Location: Kannapolis,N.C.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
why don't they fix these things instead of bad mouthing us?


They have been invited before, and I right here and now invite them again to join us here and participate in the discussions. There is not a group anywhere that has more knowledge on both Nascar and the building of stock car models.
I'd stack us as a group up against anybody.

Their kits get plenty of 'air time" here and it is all not about what they messed up. It would be nice to have folks who are producing kits in the niche we build in to include us in the discussion, not throw insults our way in a live Facebook session.

But, we are not a fan club. That means constructive critique and showing flaws and how to fix them are going to be featured here.

I'm closing this thread down, ..deadhorse . It is what it is.
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