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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:29 pm Post subject: More Than One Way to Skin a Cat... |
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None of which are popular with the cats. I'm sorry, I'll try to be good.
I was going to hold off until the Cat kit arrived but, I'm in a mood to do a little writing and I'm suffering writer's block in my sci-fi novel so here I am. As you may have guessed by the title this thread has nothing to do with sci-fi and everything to do with creating a correct, 1973 Montego, and 1975/6 Montego from the available Torino kits. I am doing the '73 version while Igor... (ahem, it's the holiday, sorry) Gerald will be working with the '76.
I've been studying the 1972 and '73 Montego's. I am still on the fence about a number of things, including how I feel about it. I mean is it a race car, trying to be luxurious? Is it a luxury car that wanted to race?! It's styling is just all over the place. It has town car styling around the bottom and front fenders, muscle car styling on the quarters and roof, wide, sturdy steel, tucked in bumper out back with very visible tail lights, pinched grille up front and standout bumper, I mean...???!!
Anyway, there are several subjects I looked at to provide the needed parts but, let's start the thread with some eye candy?
This one is a 1972 Montego. It has a roll pan in front similar to if not the same as the Torino and a narrow, fairly unhelpful front bumper. Stylin... but not helpful. In '73 the Montego used the Brougham style front splash panel and bigger bumper which was on the Pearson car.
Again I have to ask, was it half Cyclone, half Torino? Or half Torino half Cougar? Although the Cougar was a smaller car than the full sized Montego, there may at least be some useful side plastic. I anticipate though, only using nose parts.
And here's the starting line, a '72 Torino GT...
The Torino has a LOT of reshaping to do but I don't think it's going to be as hard as I thought at first. Still staring. Although the Cat (cougar kit) and the Torino are two different size cars in the same scale, we all know that scale is subjective, one kit to the next as far as the kit companies are concerned. The Cat might turn out to be the exact same length as the Torino kit even though in reality the Cougar is a smaller wheel base. We'll see when it get's here. I'm also hoping once copied, the adjustments to the grille and headlight areas will be fairly easy.
Gerald, fellas, chime in and enjoy the show! It's either going to be a spectacular failure or a mind blowing journey.
![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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gks1964
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 Posts: 263
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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My mind was blown by the 60's and 70's I've not got much to lose ![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) |
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Firefly
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 809 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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It's good to go back like this, to study what the factory (Ford/Mercury) was presenting. And how the models fit their platform, and contrasted to differentiate the brands.
By 1972, Detroit was moving to a longer wider more luxurious sensibility, away from the youthful muscle-cars, and the Torino and Montego reflected that. Mercury reflected a bit of Lincoln, with its more angular creases and long front overhang. That longer front is, to me, the biggest difference. The rest is sculpting.
By 1974, with the fastback gone, and the bumpers chunkier than ever, both the Montego and Torino were no longer svelte or sporty looking. Look at how beautiful that '72 Torino is. That '72-'76 car would become the automotive equivalent of Mickey Rourke.
So that's what the Ford teams had by 1976. And that's what Starsky & Hutch had to make look sexy. (Even as a Ford fan, I was surprised to see a mid-70s Torino in that role. Why not a Laguna or 442?)
About the '72 Cougar. No. Don't use it for anything. Squint at that side view of the blue one above and you'll see a Mustang Grande. Just think on that. _________________ Bill Jobson is my real name. |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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"Automotive equivalent of Mickey Rourke" Now THAT made me laugh! Thank you! ![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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Firefly
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 809 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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![](https://i.postimg.cc/RZWyCzKd/Screen-Shot-2020-10-07-at-10-27-35-PM.png) _________________ Bill Jobson is my real name. |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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It's just that I saw him on the masked singer last week and when he pulled off his mask first thing I thought was "WOW, I wonder what car wreck he crawled out of!" I certainly hope the plastic surgery I'm performing on this car goes better than his did. _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Lil bit of work done. I started shaving down he sides last night. I got rid of the lower body crease and leveled it, raising it to it's proper position on the Montego. Then sanded off the scallop, raising the belt line.
The red line represents the new belt line. It has to go too. Everything above the red line (except the top) needs new surface plastic.
And this one is just more proof I need to learn how to photograph a white car!
![](https://i.postimg.cc/XJSdxF74/IMG-9955-Copy.jpg) _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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gks1964
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 Posts: 263
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm liking it!! |
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DaveVan
Joined: 27 Jan 2018 Posts: 1573
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Great start! |
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Bill J
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 392
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Great start. I never noticed this before but the body that was mastered some years back missed that body crease at the top of the quarter panels on the Merc.
![](http://i.imgur.com/x47RM7d.jpg) |
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afx
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 270
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Are you planning to overlay thin plastic sheet to the body side to create the crease at the top of the quarter panel? This layer could also help define the belt line.
Nice work so far.
Last edited by afx on Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:47 am; edited 2 times in total |
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MarkJ
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 1296
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Firefly wrote: | ![](https://i.postimg.cc/RZWyCzKd/Screen-Shot-2020-10-07-at-10-27-35-PM.png) |
good one , Bill. I agree. |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:11 am Post subject: |
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You mean this crease?
I used H.O. scale 4x4 (about 1.25mm square) to line the fender ridge and create a crease and deeper door sill. Oh 30 sheet plastic (Which was too thick!) to fill the shallow areas below the line. Rough sanded, the body sides gentle roll is beginning to take shape. _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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afx
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 270
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:56 am Post subject: |
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I like to have more surface than I need when I know I'm going to do some heavy sanding. Oddly enough, although I could have used the .030 sheet to go all the way up, the square rod actually sands down easier. I also wanted to follow it closely, while building a new fender top. I'll post some shots later tonight that shows the new fender width better, and with a little luck I'll have more of the side and nose roughed in.
Instead of using filler for the final cosmetics, due to the shape of rthe fenders on this particular car, I'm going to try and actually "skin" it over, with some .010 or possibly .005. _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Can we get some thoughts on the '75 Revell Torino? _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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Firefly
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 809 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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AdamtheWayne wrote: | Can we get some thoughts on the '75 Revell Torino? |
It's the best base for the '74-'76 Montego/Cougar. I doing one as a Torino, but as far as shared features with the Mercury:
The side windows need to be enlarged a bit at the bottom sills. About the depth of the visible window trim.
Compared the '72, the Revell seems bigger at first glance but everything mirrors pretty well. The bottom is wider - but can be narrowed when cemented to a chassis.
The Mercury taillight panel and bumper will fit right in nicely. The rear bumper looks like it might match the Merc but I have not looked closely.
I see you've got the red Starsky version, seeing that hood. By the way my hood had that same nasty nip in the center at the rear edge...unfortunate spot to repair. _________________ Bill Jobson is my real name. |
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gks1964
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 Posts: 263
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Who all thinks the wheel wells of 75-76 Montego should be opened up in race trim? |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Firefly. Any issues with the Revell roof in specific?
Here's my next step. Referring back to the title, now comes the skinning... but in reverse!
Here's the side of the car as it sits right now. I will mention this because there may be some newbies who'd like to try something similar. For me, a white car is always best to work with but whatever kit you're using, don't allow shadows from inside the body to influence your sanding! This is the biggest mistake even old timers like me make. You think you need to sand more but, it's just a casting shadow from inside the car.
The arrows and the plan- Surprisingly, with all the plastic that's been removed the car is still fairly stable and sturdy. The green arrows point out how the rocker and door gaps should look at this point. If you use caution sanding up from under the Torino's trim line, you can remove and move it up without changing the flaring at the front and rear. The rear quarter panel bottom should have it's line moved up to the bottom third of the bumper opening. The red arrows show the door gaps. I purposely used three pieces of bar stock and cut/fit three pieces of sheet, so that some representation of a gap would be there. The big red arrow shows the front fender where it needs to be taken down a hair more between the black marks.
Now I'll make a pattern for the front fender, door and quarter panel and add the new skins, then the new rocker skin. _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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gks1964
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 Posts: 263
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Very nice work!! |
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DaveVan
Joined: 27 Jan 2018 Posts: 1573
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:42 am Post subject: |
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My S&H conversion
![](https://media.fotki.com/2v2U7ZzHExJcANd.jpg) |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice Dave!
I'm not going to do this for every panel but, here's a sneak peek at the new skill I just learned! On your mark, get set... skin that cat!
How'm I doin? _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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![](https://i.postimg.cc/0jw1S2vW/IMG-9980.jpg) _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Phase one, done. Phase two, rocker panels.
![](https://i.postimg.cc/nhL3rVJq/IMG-9984.jpg) _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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Bill J
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 392
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Not to interupt your progress, But while I am thinking of it..
The hood that was done previously, was too overstated. The indents in front of the scoops were too deep and the scoops were too high and did not taper to nothing at the rear edge of the hood. Something to keep in mind.
![](http://i.imgur.com/eqbbO45.jpg) |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, there's a couple other things wrong with that hood as well, I'll address all of it.
Here's the last I can do on this side for now. As soon as I get the passenger side done I can tear into the nose job. I have a couple trouble spots, most notably in the quarter panel ridge line. My trusty 3M filler will take care of that stuff as soon as I get a primer on it.
![](https://i.postimg.cc/3NDCLfFt/IMG-9989.jpg) _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, only 40 x 40. The 30 x should work as well, the 040 turned out to be a bit much. ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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bangor boy
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 447
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:20 am Post subject: |
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That's a nice start to this conversion.
I plan to build the David Pearson Montego and it looks - from numerous reference pics from internet sources - that the character line that runs above the rear quarter panels is not as pronounced as what we're seeing here in early stages of development.
![](https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/a173/xrian/Montego%20GT/img086_zps0b5cdca4.jpg) |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Yeaaaaahhhh... still a work in progress bro. I like to have more than necessary on the plastic front. Makes it much easier to work it down without using putty and such
I've got the passenger side roughed in and skinned. On this side I wanted to avoid the pitfall of the driver's side which was A-too much sanding and 2-the .005 plastic sheet was just too thin to work with. I needed to have more outer surface so, I reduced the fendertop bar stock to .030 square, and used .010 sheet, for the skins. This worked out much better. Basically if the body work is good enough to use .005 sheet? You don't need the .005 sheet!
I'll get the rockers in on it tonight and start on the nose clip. At a glance you'd think they used the same panel, '72 to '76. Nope! Two different animals. Same species, different genus! Back tonight with some illustration! _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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gks1964
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 Posts: 263
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Leaving extra plastic is the carpenter equal of measure twice cut once!! |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Oh, don't you try and make me look like a thinker! I may be two steps ahead but, I'm also a step and a half to the side! ![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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Bill J
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 392
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Sure seems to be coming along nicely. Great work so far. I am looking forward ro owning one, or two when you get them cast up.
I appreciate the effort to make a beautiful and rare race car! I would love to have a street version too, if you make one. Neat car that sort of gets overlooked in the world of 70's muscle cars. My son had a 75 which as you say is different. Same 351 Cleveland though and it was a fun car. |
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AdamtheWayne
Joined: 09 Jul 2018 Posts: 1182
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Bill, would the interior be closest to the Torino? If so which year? Or would I wind up fabbing a whole interior? _________________ "Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!" |
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Bill J
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Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 392
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:49 am Post subject: |
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There was someone making a street version and selling on ebay. He did both the 72 and the 73. The interior would be similar to the same year Torino but not the exact same. I'm not aware of any 72-73 Torino interiors in kit form although there have been resin kits of a Gran Torinos. Not sure who makes them.
I would expect the seat patterns to be different in the Merc, and likely the patterns on the door panels. Model wise the tub should be the same. |
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