Randy Ayers Nascar Modeling Forums

[KDM_Racing]

Would anyone else get a good chuckle if they released the Lemans in the Bobby Allison Gatorade colours? I would definetly buy it but I would get a good chuckle from it.

[tomcat65]

No chuckle from me. That is the #1 LeMans I want to do. But with the licensing they have in place, they can do 4 cars. #88 Gatorade, #28 Hardee's, #27 Old Milwaulkee, & #28 Tuf-Lon. So we will see which they do first. Or they may surprise us...

[KDM_Racing]

If I was to rank probability, it would be

#1 #28 Tuf-lon
#2 #28 Hardees
#3 #27 Old Milwaulkee
#4 #88 Gatorade

[AdamtheWayne]

_________________
"Dude, it's not Camelot... it's only a model." "Details man, I need details!!"

[bigryan18]

The roof on the Lemans test shot is horrible

[Matt T.]

[DaveVan]

The only photos/pics I can find are the spinning video on FB.....like all Salvinos tooled bodies it will need some mods....but I will not say it is junk until I have it in hand and CAN NOT fix it with some simple mods.

[Lionpride]

They have a lot of people (customers) kneeling at their feet.

[Joe Oteri]

I just don't understand why he keeps tooling bodies up like this. Here's the pic I posted in my 2+2 thread. The front of the roof is higher than the back, too flat/square, and the door sill has this weird curve when it should be straight.



And the door bars not even being in the same zip code as the window opening is the biggest eyesore.
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Joe Oteri

https://public.fotki.com/AAJOTERI/joes_models-1/nascar_models/

[jpaul7]

Also the b and c pillars aren’t even close in those pics

[gks1964]

Lack of understanding your customer base! They need to realize that children are not buying model kits anymore and detail sells to the old crowd.

[Bill J]

I pointed out numerous flaws with their first kit, the Olds 442 and many blasted me for it, like I was the evil one.
Plain and simple, I have not said anything else about their kits and I have not bought any of their kits.
I look at it as money saved I will say, it is just as easy to get these right if they were at all interested.

[gks1964]

[Lionpride]

[Lionpride]

[Rob Spires]

I’m hoping that radiusing the wheel wells will help the sides not look so bulky. Obviously that won’t fix the roof issue, but it will be a start.

I’m worried they’re flooding the market. They keep putting out the same 4 or 5 kits with only different decals. Once supply outpaces demand, it’s going to be hard to move Monogram kits at $40.

[Joe Oteri]

Rob makes a great point. On eBay you can snag the OG Monogram's for around $25 shipped...even the Waltrip combo for $45-50 shipped and get 2 full kits with much less flash. They have strippable chrome, windows that fit, and solid tires you can actually sand. Add a $12 set of decals from Mike and it just doesn't make send to buy the "new" $40 kit. This business model for them would've worked 20 years ago when the internet wasn't what it is today and much more hobby shops were around; they're gonna hit a wall soon if their new products don't improve.
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Joe Oteri

https://public.fotki.com/AAJOTERI/joes_models-1/nascar_models/

[WR]

I guess i am not that good of a model builder but i have bought quite a few of them and had fun building them.

[Joe Oteri]

Nobody is questioning abilities and skill set, some of us just can't warrant spending $40 for a $25 kit at best.

I gotta ask WR, are you on Salvino's payroll? Every time we have any sort of critical discussion about this company here, you're the only one blindly defending them and not listening to our justified concerns.
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Joe Oteri

https://public.fotki.com/AAJOTERI/joes_models-1/nascar_models/

[WR]

Not on anybody's payroll, I have enough stress in life and i have always built models for fun and am thankful somebody is putting new stuff out there to build and i guess i am a cup half full type of person.

[Joe Oteri]

Fair enough.
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Joe Oteri

https://public.fotki.com/AAJOTERI/joes_models-1/nascar_models/

[Rob Spires]

[Steve Salhany]

The easiest fix for that LeMans issue is to cut off the window net and reattach it so it looks "right." I did this with the 2+2 and it works extremely well.

It's highly unlikely they're flooding the market as each release is only 5000 pieces or so. They're extremely excited by the direction the company is taking. From all indications their kits are selling quite well. I am very grateful to have the 2+2 and LeMans in plastic, two cars that have never been available in kit form before.

Since I build models to look right on the shelf and I don't sweat the smaller details, I'm very happy with their kits and have had a lot of fun building numerous issues. I don't care about truck arms or any of that stuff. I also understand that not everyone feels the same way.

[Steve Salhany]

Here's a 2+2 where I cut off then reattached the window net. Easy peasy, and it looks good. For me this is good enough. The 2+2 has the same sort of roof shape as the Lemans, so I'll do the same when I get the LeMans in.

I also (and this goes back to the Monogram molds) always shave down the wheel back centers to get the wheels further into the body. Makes a big visual difference. I also finessed the body to sit a little further down on the chassis, something I've had to do with every single Nascar kits I've ever built, no matter the company.

This is not to minimize people's concerns, but merely to show what I do to get a model that looks good on my shelf that I'm satisfied with. For me, Salvino's has been a huge boon. I only speak for myself.

[Steve Salhany]

[spooker]

I weighed in on Salvino's quality and accuracy as soon as the Olds was released and I got my first (and only) Salvino's kit. The discussion went down hill rapidly and I've held my tongue since. However, I have to say that as a businessman, it seems very short sighted to cater to the "casual builder, the Christmas morning modeler, the birthday present from Uncle" buyers rather than the serious modelers that would buy these by the case if the bodies and other MAJOR details were done correctly. It kind of reminds me of the direction a certain sanctioning body took in alienating its long time (and knowledgeable) fans for the "new wave" fan that may or may not be around very long. It just seems silly to me that a modern company with modern methods at its disposal could continue in this direction. It reminds me of Stonehenge and the Egyptian pyramids: somewhere in the mists of time, the ancient technology used to build these thing has been lost and no one can figure out how to do it anymore!

Brian

[Rob Spires]

[Dennis O]

I'm just glad to have a new player making kits. I too (as are some others) not overly concerned about whats under the shiny side of the car. I want it to be as close as possible but not gonna sweat anything I can't readily see. I understand to others those details loom much larger. I'm really hopeful Salvinos comes through with that modified kit. That will be a jumping off point for building (or attempting to) an "Outlaw Figure 8" car.
_________________
Dennis
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.......

[spooker]

[sentsat71]

I've been reading these posts and have a question or 2....

1. Tell me of a model kit that has been produced that is 100% correct in every detail? I don't care what type of kit.

2. If you want a kit to be 100% correct, why don't you start up a company to produce these 100% correct kits and see if you can sell them for $40? And see if someone complains about something that they didn't like.

3. How many of you were around when AMT brought out various 3n1 kits with NASCAR parts For example the 1965 & '66 Ford Galaxies? The '68 & '69 Torinos? The JoHan Petty kits? The MPC NASCAR series in the early '70's?

Granted there was not social media back then like there is today. For reference pics and whatever else there is out there today.

I know this is primarily a NASCAR modeling sight, but what "us" short track modelers?
Where are the IMCA style modifieds that probably run more tracks than even sprint sprint cars?? And these type cars have been around for several ears now and no one wants to produce one. Why?
For us sprint car fans, there is NO new frames being produced on a large scale that are running out there today, winged or non-winged. The one/s R/M have been putting out may have some new hoods, but the base frame AND roll cage dates back to 1987!

Will get of my now.....
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Ed. K

[Joe Oteri]

Ed, this company has been around for over 2 years now and we're still seeing the same problems since their initial kit.

Nobody expects a perfect kit. It's never been and never will be made. People (myself included) just want good looking and decently proportioned bodies that fit on the respective chassis, is that really too much to ask? There's really no excuse for these body design issues with today's technology readily available. Everything's drawn on a computer and rapid prototyping has made it even easier to QC items before the files are sent to a machinist for mold cutting and money has been spent/wasted.

I saw Jim made a reference to this place on his Saturday morning video today. The invite's been extended to him numerous times to join us and talk about their kits and how to make them better. We want to see them succeed and prosper, nobody wants to see them fail....what would that accomplish? This hobby needs all the help it can get, but at the same time many of us just can't justify throwing $40 at them for a kit when there's numerous unnecessary and easily fixable errors that could be taken care of before production.
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Joe Oteri

https://public.fotki.com/AAJOTERI/joes_models-1/nascar_models/

[sentsat71]

Thank you Joe Oteri for your reply.

Am i correct in saying that you are not a short track open wheel builder?
I ask because of the 1st modern Sprint car that AMT released around 1974/75.
That kit was no picnic to put together. yet AMT released 2 other versions with slight differences, one added a small wing that rested o the roll cage iwth no up right suppots

unlike the Monogram release in 1987, the AMT kit was a multi piece rame. but the 3 piece "jug" that came with the kit had the slots foo far apart. then there were the tires. I think AMT was trying to put in pavement tires for their kits. But those slicks were as tall as what should have been dirt tires.
And when AMT brought out the Tobias Chassied modified a year or so later, which is primarily a dirt modified chassis, the same tires came in those kits....
Just looked at tires from the AMT Modified Stockers. those tires are the same size as the ones for the sprints and Tobias modifieds.

Then on thre MPC side of things came out with their Super Stocker seres they were much better than the AMT versions the R2 is still putting out. The tires of the MPC Super Stockers were treaded...When MPC came out with their "pavement" modifies, gurs what, they used the wheels and tires form the Super Stocker series....

Though I have to say that the Monogram sprint cars were the best sprint cars put out, though now the frames are outdated. But the are far more accurate that the old AMT Grant King sprint car kit.

Though a simplified rear frame set up on the 1967 Monogram Don Edumds Supermodifed, it was, I believe the 1st true non stock car race car kit to be released, back then...

Though probably "buried" by now, but I think I've posted a group shot of the AMT Grant King sprints I built in the 1970's, and the two completed AMT Tobias modifeds that I bult back in the same time period in the section that feature the short track cars...
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Ed. K

[Joe Oteri]

You're correct Ed, I'm not a short track or open wheel builder. I've always been a Nascar fan and builder, short track models have never appealed to me. Maybe it's a regional thing, but the only open wheel car I'd build would be a Whelen Modified. The asphalt car Salvino's has drawn up is something I'd buy in a heartbeat because It would be new and different.

I can understand your frustration with a lack of quality and modern short track/sprint car models; I've always been a pickup truck fan and the newest glue kit produced is a '99 Silverado.
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Joe Oteri

https://public.fotki.com/AAJOTERI/joes_models-1/nascar_models/

[Mack]

In my view the market will determine their success or lack thereof. I recall the AMT offerings of the late eighties/ early nineties. Some were good, some not so much. It's reflected in the market value of those kits today, and how often you see those kits built. To look at the accuracy, the chassis and components were very nice, the Ford body wasn't close. IIRC, the Pontiac looked the best. My point is if Salvinos is selling kits and making money, they may be happy where they're at. I've seen some of their kits when built by a skilled modeler look fantastic. Did they have to massage it some? Yep. I've seen a few of the aforementioned AMT kits look fantastic also, when built by a skilled modeler. Personally, I hope Salvinos does great.
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life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne

[sentsat71]

Joe.....
I talked to a driver/buiulder around 5 years ago or so and he felt it was a good idea, so there was an IMCA style modified builder/owner/driver who was interested. When I pitched it to Revell, they were not excited about it, like I thoght they would have been, but maybe they were reeling from the KurtisKraft Midget kits, that I guess didn't sell as well as they had hoped when they brought them out 10 years ago....
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Ed. K

[Steve Salhany]

I just checked, I have eight build ups of Salvino's kits already and have planned several more. They all look good to me. Obv this is all a personal preference, but I personally am grateful they're in the market.

We've gotten a 2+2 in plastic, never available before. I understand the roof is a little wonky, but it's a quick fix via moving the safety net, AND the back glass fits BEAUTIFULLY which is by far more important to making it look like the real thing. Once built I see zero issues with mine.

We've gotten a flat nose Monte Carlo, never available in plastic. Again, much easier than using resin and it looks great.

The LeMans is coming out and I'm very excited to once again get a brand new kit in plastic that has never been available before.

The Olds and older Monte Carlo. While the chassis is fiddly, they can be built up by someone of average ability, ie me. And once done they look great IMO. And once again, never available in plastic NASCAR form before (a street Monte was available, converting it would be a PITA).

They've also brought back the Regal, the Grand Prix, and aero MC, old classics with new modern decals. The Regal was getting hard to find in original guise and of course the decals make a world of difference. I don't have to spend 15-20 on aftermarket decals all the time for these kits now. When I got my Petty Regal they added the vermillion decals for it in my shipment and I used them and now I have a car on my shelf I never would have built otherwise (tried twice to paint it on other kits and failed each time).

Keep in mind that the original Monogram kits always needed tweaking to look right. I have to move in the wheels and adjust the ride height. Revell put out those first Tauruses and they all rode like 4X4 trucks out of the box, just stupid ride height and wheel issues. Hell, the last Fusion and SS glue kits have the same issues, and that's from a company that's made MILLIONS of pieces. I bought a new street car '86 Chevy Monte Carlo from Revell and while the decals are now much nicer, it also rode too high out of the box. Adjust adjust adjust. It's what modelers do.

I joined their builder's club, they're quite exited about the future and have detailed future plans. They give away lots of free stuff in the Wed builder's club meetings and also had the vermillion Petty decals created which are very cool. Rick has been involved in racing his entire life and knows the cars extremely well.

I would not tell anyone how to enjoy the hobby, but personally I'm very glad to be part of their club and I'm excited to see what else they bring to market. The support they get now will help them bring out the modifieds (which don't interest me) that others want to build.

It's also very reasonable to pick and choose what you want from them, if anything. I get that completely. In ordinary circumstances I'd probably do the same, but I wanted to support the hobby during the pandemic by throwing my money behind a kit company.

[Steve Salhany]

The only paint I used was the blue, the rest were the vermillions. Without Salvino's I personally would not have been able to build this. I'm grateful they innovated these decals for us.

Just my .02.

[BVAUGHN]

Is the generic kit Powerslide chiming out with using the same molds as the ones in this discussion?
Bill

[Steve Salhany]

[Joe Oteri]

Steve, we could all go round and round forever on this topic and still never come to an agreeable conclusion. You're a big fan of them and what they're doing, that's great. Myself and others here aren't, and that's okay too. Like I said before and others have echoed, nobody is questioning builder abilities, skills, and or tactics when discussions about this company come up here. Some of us just aren't fans of their design choices and execution when it comes to their kits.

Being in the collision industry, I'd say I have a more critical view and take on their body proportions and designs than a casual person would. Do I expect Tamiya laser perfection? Absolutely not, but things like the roof height and location to the door bars is really inexcusable. Those 80's kits were the closest thing to perfection us Nascar modelers have ever had; a newly tooled body with today's technology readily available and then ending up problems that can be easily fixed before it went into production just doesn't make sense to me.
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Joe Oteri

https://public.fotki.com/AAJOTERI/joes_models-1/nascar_models/

[spooker]

Exactly what Joe said! The Monogram kits were not perfect, but better than anything before or since. The quality, accuracy and fit was good enough that even an average builder could turn out a nice looking replica, and the bodies and major chassis details were accurate enough that the gung-ho detailer had a good start on whatever level of detail he wanted to achieve. To see a company with today's technology available to it fall short of that standard is just...well, sad.

Brian

[Mack]

The Monogram kits set the standard for NASCAR kits in my humble opinion. The only one I wish someone would re tool a body for is the 83-86 Thunderbird. Their GM cars were spot on.
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life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne

[Steve Salhany]

I guess I'm in the minority here and disagree with those Monogram kits being close to perfection. Tire and wheel ride height issues, strange crossover exhaust dumps that were completely inaccurate for 99% of Nascar cars ever made, finicky and exasperating rear suspension setup, windshields that are a PITA to fit, far too much chrome on pieces that shouldn't have been, and an annoying dash/front bar combo piece that was difficult to paint correctly.

Are they fun to build? Absolutely. Can I build one in my sleep? You bet. Do they have flaws? Definitely.

Joe, I thought you were an electrician!

[Steve Salhany]

Man, just thinking about it more, I despise the rear suspension on those Monogram cars. Hate hate hate hate hate it.

We all have our foibles, I guess.

[DaveVan]

[spooker]

Steve, you are correct in all your observations regarding the Monogram kits, BUT they did (for the most part) have decently accurate bodies which is half the battle in building a nice-looking model. All your points are correct, but they were and are easily fixable. Massive body changes are time consuming and beyond the skills or desires of many casual builders. Just wondering what your concerns are with the rear suspension, I've never had any troubles there that I can recall?

Brian

[Steve Salhany]

[Steve Salhany]

[Joe Oteri]

[Mack]

@Steve, you are correct about the Monogram rear ends. Pain in the backside. I never liked the windows that mounted from the inside either. Those were primarily on the 88 through 94 Pontiacs, the 87 Olds and the 88 thru 92 Buicks. A recent build on here by jjsipes featured exterior mounted glass on an 88 Allison Regal. Looked great. I think the Monogram kits were the best compared to everything up until then. I had heard talk of an Accurate Miniatures Ford Taurus. I would have loved to have seen that. Never materialized. By the way your Petty Buick is killer.
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life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne