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A long time fan finally joins
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Can anybody post pictures from the Chrysler kit car catalog?
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Tom M.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://public.fotki.com/gearhead15/chrysler_direct/

Here's the entire catalog, I think it's a later one.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

....ok....
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

In 1974 Chrysler started the kit car program. With the recent popularity of restored muscle car era Mopar cars you can now buy reproduction frame rails. Compare pictures of the two.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

I am not a Ford guy nor am I trying to make enemies out of Ford guys. Growing up in New York City Mopar and GM were the cars of choice. So please forgive me if I was under the impression that the 70 body style Torinos and montego's had four coils underneath them. I'm just a Mopar guy what do I know?
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Racer14



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The coil spring change came in 1972 and also it went to a full frame.
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odcics2



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kit cars used production E body front rails and crossmembers.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Yes I am aware that the kit car program used an e body front clip and crossmember. But we are not talking about the front frame rails. It's already fairly well established not by anything I said but by the pictures in the meet Richard Petty book that the 70 Roadrunner had box tubing frame rails in the front clip. As a lifelong Mopar guy with over 200 of them in my past I do not see what looks like stock frame rails under the rear of the documented late 70 early 71 built Buddy Baker Dodge Charger that has all those awesome pre restoration pictures of it on Mopar trader.com. again I'm going to stick to my guns and say with conviction that assembly line Mopar frame rails are much more rounded and have access holes in them. Aero 426 posted pictures from about the same time. Of some very Square looking rear frame rails in a jig at Petty Enterprises. The question here is did NASCAR allow Petty Enterprises to run fully fabricated frame rails as early as mid 1970. And what is the difference in a factory assembly line frame rail and the piece that was offered to the public in the kit car program. As somebody with both drag racing and body shop experience I could tell you that the weak spot in b-body cars is the rear frame rails which is why the factory added extra support to Hemi cars and convertibles.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

And any talented welder could forum sheet steel into something that looks like a unibody frame rail. But I really doubt they could get the rounded corners and the section out by the rear leaf spring perch that flares inwards. And that's what I'm looking at. Or, being since the kit car program may or may not have had a special non assembly line frame rail for the rear clip included( there was a remark made about frogs) , what exactly was in the kit car box? I believe all the way back to the announcement of the kit car program, with the big Stock Car Racing magazine cover story, complete with Dale Earnhardt at the wheel of a Dodge Challenger kit car, that the parts were off the shelf. And as we all know Chrysler and Petty Enterprises shelves included chassis jigs.
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Mark C.



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote





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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Is that Richard overlooking a 70 Torino build?!?!
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john843



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, always assumed that pic was taken later in '69 when Richard was still with Ford but before the return to ChryCo was finalized. The new body styles used to come out in Sept. or so and the factory Ford teams may have had access to the new sheet metal before that.

John
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

So that means that petty Enterprises had inside information into the king cobra program. Very interesting. Next question is was that picture taken inside of the petty shops or at Holman & Moody. Speaking of pictures of cars under construction, I've seen it at least two different videos pictures of a white 66 or 67 charger looking a lot like the one in the above picture being attributed to a Holman & Moody shop build. I have also seen pictures of certain All Star engine builders in Bobby Allison Coca-Cola uniforms working on a big block Chevrolet also being attributed to Holman & Moody. Could somebody clarify? After all, there are people on here who know every last little thing that Holman & Moody ever did, right?
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Aero426



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Bobby The Cabdriver wrote:
So that means that petty Enterprises had inside information into the king cobra program. Very interesting.


Probably no more knowledge of the KC than any other Ford team. They likely would have known A: the car tested poorly, and B: by the time of the above photo, the KC was dead and past the point of no return. As time progressed, they certainly had to be aware that Chrysler was working something.

The photo of the '70 Torino was taken inside PE. The car is a reskin of the three bar headrest Talladega. It had to be taken late in 1969. It would make sense that they were doing the '70 Torino for Riverside.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

So would that be the car that used to sit in the lobby at the memory lane Museum?
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Aero426



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Bobby The Cabdriver wrote:
So would that be the car that used to sit in the lobby at the memory lane Museum?


There are no documented Petty 1969 cars that exist. The 1970 Torino work in progress would have gone back to HM with all the other Ford inventory.

Petty had three 1969 cars. The Riverside winner was destroyed at Asheville in the spring. Photos of the stripped out body at HM exist. The fate of the other two is less clear. The third car became the 1970 reskin. There has been suggestion that the third car wound up with Junior Johnson or LG DeWitt. There also is some Ford paperwork that states the remaining cars were unsuitable for track use and were sent to Dearborn for crash testing. Neither of those story lines coincide with the Memory Lane car, which as i recall was found wearing 1971 Mercury skin.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Wow that's a pity! that casts a Real Shadow on anybody who gets work done on their vintage race car in Gastonia doesn't it?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



















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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Thank you so much for these pictures! I'm working on a Nichols chassis K&K 68 Charger and I have stop actioned Petty's crash at Darlington so many times.... now the front stay of the rear frame rail clips look pretty Square to me compared to anything I've ever had under one of my B body cars.... headed back to beginning of this thread, I was told many years ago that the Petty's were using a fully fabricated rear clip in the late 70 Roadrunner which was the first fully in the house car built at PE. As I stated earlier pictures don't lie, but both Cottons charger and Petty's early 70Roadrunner were Nichols chassis cars, right?
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

And is anybody making a box intake like the one pictured in resin? Or a really good cross ram for that matter? Like the Johan one.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Bobby The Cabdriver wrote:
Wow that's a pity! that casts a Real Shadow on anybody who gets work done on their vintage race car in Gastonia doesn't it?


The faux Petty Talladega was a high school auto shop class project, like most of the cars at Memory Lane. The short nose Torino was the Gastonia car.

Bobby The Cabdriver wrote:
Thank you so much for these pictures! I'm working on a Nichols chassis K&K 68 Charger and I have stop actioned Petty's crash at Darlington so many times.... now the front stay of the rear frame rail clips look pretty Square to me compared to anything I've ever had under one of my B body cars....


I'm not a Mopar expert but I do recall that the front spring mounts in the rear, along with some other bits and pieces, were unique to the Hemi cars on the street versions. Perhaps that's the difference. Mopar wasn't alone in that, my '69 GTO Judge street stock almost got tossed by the technical inspectors due to a pair of additional braces to keep the torque from deflecting and cracking the crossmember that the upper rear suspension links attached to. Not sure if all Ram Air GTOs got those braces or only the Judge cars.
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john843



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Bobby The Cabdriver wrote:
And is anybody making a box intake like the one pictured in resin? Or a really good cross ram for that matter? Like the Johan one.


Google BNL Resins. They have a real nice bathtub for $3.50 (sorry, I couldn't get it to link.)

John
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:26 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

The three main differences in a Hemi cars chassis from1966 to the Street Hemi production end in 1971 was additional Square support off the plate that accepts the front leaf spring mount, additional reinforcement where the pinion snubber comes up in contacts the floor( please don't make me get into a big discussion about Mopar leaf spring geometry but it's a design feature not a design flaw) and a skid plate under the front crossmember(to protect the deeper Hemi oil pan)which also has a different motor mount setup then other Mopar V8. I'm not a Pontiac expert, but I do believe there are some mechanical differences in the chassis of all ram air GTOs, not just judge models. My love of 60s and early 70s performance cars and Motorsports is all-encompassing. Not just electric blue plymouth's and Poppy red Chargers. But it still dumbfounding and amazing that Chrysler sold over 14,000 Street hemi-powered rocket ships to the public.... most of them with four-wheel manual drum brakes!!! For one reason and one reason only, to win races!
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:45 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Thank you John, I found the link by Googling "BNL resin model cars" close but not quite there..... but a lot of interesting stuff particularly for those who build four by fours and late model drag cars.A NASCAR "big track"intake is very similar to a race Hemi cross ram. On the short tracks, they used a more conventional intake for more bottom-end grunt. I also do believe the closest intake in 25th scale would be the cross ram from the Johan 64 Dodge super stock. I don't have the Mobius 65 Plymouth yet so I can't comment on the cross Ram intake in those, but the next order from Mike will have one as well as a Savino Oldsmobile. And me and my old friend Mike are planning a surprise for everybody!
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Mark C.



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few other pics I found on the web:






















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odcics2



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put the green arrows on those 3 photos above.
I was proving that the Hamilton Bird was really Richards!

Cool
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Mark C.



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

odcics2 wrote:
I put the green arrows on those 3 photos above.
I was proving that the Hamilton Bird was really Richards!

Cool


Awesome! I hope you don't mind me posting the photos! I just grabbed a number of them off the net to hopefully add some substance to this thread.

The cars (Mopars) definitely seem more and more modified from a stock white body as time went on...

Let me know if you want the pics removed from my post above and I'll do it. Smile
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

And this is why I started this thread! I've never seen that picture of Richard with that very artistic set of door bars before, wow! There's the trophy room Superbird getting work done in the background of a picture that's either from Motor Trend or Hot Rod Magazine. Why would a car sitting in a museum be out in the race shop having work done on it? We are talkin somewhere in between mid 75 and mid 77 and there is a 77 date on the Hot Rod Magazine story which I've never seen before. I used to have a copy of the Motor Trend cover story..... in another life. I think it's time for another run-down of the Petty Superbirds and roadrunners... I know of the Hugh Hawthorne bulldozer car, the Pete Hamilton car and the trophy room car, which For Better or Worse, is a petty Superbird even though it was never raced as one. There was 4 Superbirds and two roadrunners with Nichols chassis plus the short track roadrunner now known as the trophy room Superbird,correct? Counting the trophy room car that's 7 . How about it? And what about the 70 Roadrunner on that episode of the TV show CHiPs? While I was in LA, I heard that was a real Petty car. From somebody who would know! A principle at a major Hollywood supplier of movie Cars. Somebody I could reach if I need to! It might still exist in the somewhere in the San Fernando Valley.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that photo is in the '76-'77 time frame it's the '70 Roadrunner from the Darlington crash being converted into the Hugh Hawthorne Superbird. The Trophy Room car was converted earlier from the Petty-built Roadrunner. There was only one Nichels Roadrunner and two Nichels Superbirds, no Petty built Superbirds (unless you double dip and count the Trophy Room Superbird which has already been counted as the Petty built Roadrunner. Not sure where you expected they would do that kind of work other than the race shop, that was the only fabrication and repair space they had.

The Hamilton Superbird no longer exists, the car that the Pettys incorrectly identified as the Hamilton car was correctly identified right here as the actual Petty Superbird and is now recognized as that car.
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Mark C.



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, the 2 pics of Petty with his Charger, Superbird, and Magnum came from this article:

https://www.stripes.com/news/the-winning-ways-of-the-petty-blue-1.13880

I don't have any expertise to add to the discussion, which is why I'm not adding comments. But I do seem to be able to find stuff on the net.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Okay so what about the 70 Roadrunner on the episode of Chips?
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Okay so what about the 70 Roadrunner on the episode of Chips? Did both Petty Superbirds wind up getting sold on the West Coast? I've seen pictures of the Hershel McGriff car. That's the one that everybody thought was Hamilton's car correct? The one with the dent in the roll bars on the right side. And if people aren't familiar, an episode of the cop show CHiPs had an episode where one of the guys went to a short track, and turn laps in a 70 Roadrunner looking remarkably like the Hershel McGriff car that had already been converted into a charger by the time this episode was shot, 78 or 79. On top of everything this Roadrunner had an STP red and blue paint job on it and of course number 43. What I heard, while hanging out in Hollywood a few years ago,was this car still existed. Maybe I need to make a few phone calls or send a few emails but I could probably get a hold of the person who told me about this car. I do remember reading on here that one of the petty cars was thought to be scrapped in California. There's a mind-boggling amount of incredible cars sitting in warehouses and garages all over Los Angeles.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGriff got the Hamilton car, Las Vegas dentist Doc Faustina got the Petty Superbird. Both had been returned to regular Roadrunner trim when they were sold. Evidence indicates that the Hamilton car had probably been stripped of usable parts and scrapped by '79.
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:02 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Hmmmm.....
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:22 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

I found it! I'm looking at it! On Dailymotion!
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally join Reply with quote

Under hood and roll cage shots as well as some very good shots of the interior around minute 39.... what are we looking at here?!?! Yes there is a very fake looking 73 Charger, several years of Ontario spliced in, Gary Bettenhauser backing penske's Matador into the wall, a variety of West Coast Camaro late models, several Winston West looking Chevys and a variety of off-the-shelf Hollywood NASCAR footage.... Plus episode footage shot at Riverside... calling Greg and Paul!
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:51 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

CHiPs S03E09 "Drive lady Drive part 1 "video Dailymotion/ www. dailymotion.com
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Most times, due to liability and reliability, cars that are featured in movies and television are owned by a company that builds and leases them to the production company and are on set for the entire shoot. Many times after shooting is done, they are shoved into the corner of a warehouse, sometimes for a few days, sometimes for 40 years. An outdated race car in 1978 on its way to being scrapped, could be easily cleaned up and presented nicely in front of the camera. You guys tell me before I make a fool of myself making phone calls to people who I haven't talked to in a couple of years. I tried stopping and staring at it and it kind of looks like a Nichols chassis to me....
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Could somebody post some photos of the doc faustina car? I believe there was on this form several years ago pictures of this car. I could find the person easily that told me this car from the CHiPs episode still existed. He has his own Barstool in a dive I used to hang out in Hollywood 3 years ago and is retired from a movie car company.
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odcics2



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Countless pages of photos on this site of MoPar stock cars.
Two Nascar threads, one USAC.

https://www.allpar.com/forums/forums/historical.216/

Better pack a lunch.

Photos that were once here, too !!
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Bobby The Cabdriver



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Thanks for the tip! I noticed that this car has the main hoop flaring towards the front, I've seen that before somewhere.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

odcics2 wrote:
I put the green arrows on those 3 photos above.
I was proving that the Hamilton Bird was really Richards!

Cool


I remember that discussion thread - it was an amazing display of sleuthing. Should have gotten a Pulitzer!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

aSo, Firefly, what do you think of this 70 Roadrunner on this episode episode of CHiPs? This thing may still exist and I may be able to make some phone calls and find it. I found pictures of John Sears car and the fender Wells look really close.
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Firefly



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Bobby The Cabdriver wrote:
aSo, Firefly, what do you think of this 70 Roadrunner on this episode episode of CHiPs? This thing may still exist and I may be able to make some phone calls and find it. I found pictures of John Sears car and the fender Wells look really close.


Sharper eyes than mine will have a better opinion of this scrappy looking bird, so here are shots of the CHiPS car you mention.





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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Let's keep in mind this episode was shot about the same time that the Faustina car disappeared and unlike the rebody K&K charger the a pillar roll bar matches the a-pillar. But again another shot shows the main hoop for the roll bar flaring forward at the top.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the strangest thing I've seen in awhile... a '70 painted in STP colours. Any chance during the show that actual NASCAR action shots were dubbed in to the show featuring Petty's STP car(s)? That would make sense as shows used to do that sort of thing all the time. As a young car guy it would drive me crazy, scenes shifting back and forth between different cars with similar paint schemes, and the public was not supposed to know any better...
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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
Posts: 388
Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Watch the episode! Wait till see the 73 Charger!!! And the twin yellow "Laguna's"!
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Bobby The Cabdriver wrote:
Watch the episode! Wait till see the 73 Charger!!! And the twin yellow "Laguna's"!


At what time mark were those shots? I missed them. Also this seems to be a two part episode - is the second part online? I could not find it on DailyMotion.
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odcics2



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

Firefly wrote:
Bobby The Cabdriver wrote:
aSo, Firefly, what do you think of this 70 Roadrunner on this episode episode of CHiPs? This thing may still exist and I may be able to make some phone calls and find it. I found pictures of John Sears car and the fender Wells look really close.


Sharper eyes than mine will have a better opinion of this scrappy looking bird, so here are shots of the CHiPS car you mention.






I'd say it is not a Petty car, or a Nichels build, for that matter...
Too many things don't jive!
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Bobby The Cabdriver



Joined: 19 Oct 2018
Posts: 388
Location: " Keep Austin Weird?"ugh...

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: A long time fan finally joins Reply with quote

The main scenes with this Roadrunner were shot at Riverside and the end of episode 1. I haven't really even watched episode 2 yet, at least not since it was on in syndication in the late 80s! The way the fenders and quarters are cut, it kind of looks like that John Sears car to me, and you'll see again, the top of the Main hoop of the roll bar leans forward. I've seen that somewhere before. I have somebody who owns 3 Street Superbirds in Los Angeles making calls about this car as we speak. It does look like a professionally built car. Didn't Chuck Bown or somebody like that spend huge dollars building a Hemi Orange Street Superbird into a race car and somebody recently found the front clip from it?
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