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429 Hemi???? 1970 Daytona 500

 
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MG Brown



Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject: 429 Hemi???? 1970 Daytona 500 Reply with quote

A friend recently finished a model of the #99 Dow Dodge driven by Charlie Glotzbach in the 1970 Daytona "500".

I asked him about the "429 C.I." on the hood and he said that's what the reference photos showed- and he's right. The Powerslide sheet has the "429" graphic as well.

Anyone know the back story on why this car apparently had a "429" Hemi??????

I looked a bunch on the internet and searched this forum with no luck- thanks for any information that you can pass along!

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LilRedDave



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to be a Nichels thing. Freddy in '71 had the same indication. I believe the rules stated a 430CI max limit....I'm sure they were at least that. I would think that Chrysler would want to identify with the street HEMI 426 size.
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MG Brown



Joined: 14 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Don White was running a "429'er" also?

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drppr76



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all Ray Nichels owned hemi cars had the 429 marking on the hood, not really sure why they did that
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 808
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure they tweaked the stroke to squeeze out the extra displacement. Shorter rods? Different crank?
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George Andrews



Joined: 30 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the 429 C.I. lettering Nichels used, could have been a dig at Ford's Boss 429 ??? I recall that the Ford 427 was actually 425 cubic inches, however Buick already had a 425 so Ford fibbed on their C.I.D. listing a bit. I guess NASCAR didn't really care too much or they would have made Ford change the C.I.D. lettering.
Another possibility is that the 426 Hemi, once the bores were " cleaned up " and honed, was actually a 429 C.I.D. displacement ???
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darksidefan2



Joined: 10 Feb 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefly wrote:
I'm sure they tweaked the stroke to squeeze out the extra displacement. Shorter rods? Different crank?


Would have been an overbore for the additional 3 cubes.
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Tom M.
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Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 600

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

George Andrews wrote:
I wonder if the 429 C.I. lettering Nichels used, could have been a dig at Ford's Boss 429 ??? I recall that the Ford 427 was actually 425 cubic inches, however Buick already had a 425 so Ford fibbed on their C.I.D. listing a bit. I guess NASCAR didn't really care too much or they would have made Ford change the C.I.D. lettering.
Another possibility is that the 426 Hemi, once the bores were " cleaned up " and honed, was actually a 429 C.I.D. displacement ???


The Ford was 425.98 cubic inches but Mopar had the 426 and Chevy was introducing the Z-11 at 427 so Ford rounded up to match the Chevy. Plus, the specs on the stock bore allowed for them to be .0035 larger than nominal but no smaller. So they were "around" 427 cubic inches.
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odcics2



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another reason why Nichels lost the Chrysler contract to Petty Enterprises??

The rule was 430 max displacement.

So, a couple of cubes over 426 could get you a few more ponies under the hood.

If I were Chrysler management, back then, I would have told Nichels ALL cars say 426. PERIOD!
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john843



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 607
Location: S.C. Lowcountry

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I caught that years ago on the Freddy '71 car and always assumed that it just had to do with being a little more precise for whatever reasons. I know that when we were running the old Nascar LMS series back in the '70s, about half the Chevys had 350 cid and about half had 358 or 355 on the hood callouts. Thought it was the same kind of thing but certainly do agree that given the special status the the Chrysler "426 Hemi" had already reached (even non-car guys and women had heard of them!) that ChryCo would have wanted to play it up at EVERY opportunity (and not confuse people like me).

John
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wsmith



Joined: 23 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NASCAR rules at the time required the true engine size to be displayed on the hood as the weight of the car was determined by a pound per cubic inch rule. The Woods for example ran a 396 cubic inch engine at times so they could run at a lighter weight, therefore 396 CI on the hood.
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wsmith



Joined: 23 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NASCAR rules at the time required the true engine size to be displayed on the hood as the weight of the car was determined by a pound per cubic inch rule. The Woods for example ran a 396 cubic inch engine at times so they could run at a lighter weight, therefore 396 CI on the hood.
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wsmith



Joined: 23 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NASCAR rules at the time required the true engine size to be displayed on the hood as the weight of the car was determined by a pound per cubic inch rule. The Woods for example ran a 396 cubic inch engine at times so they could run at a lighter weight, therefore 396 CI on the hood.
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john843



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: S.C. Lowcountry

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember seeing a picture of the K&K car with 396 CI callouts on the hood.
(Maybe from Greenville-Pickens?) Also, while I don't have one any longer to reference, I think Yesterday's used to include them on their #71 K&K sheet.

John
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LilRedDave



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might as well add a few more to the mix ...

Petty


Pearson


Hylton & Goldsmith
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first two photos in that last post are from 1966, when the HEMI was limited to 405 on a midsize car. The third is later, probably the weight-displacement rule.
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