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Wheel track of Monogram Nascar kits

 
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Rob de Bie



Joined: 27 Jun 2018
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Wheel track of Monogram Nascar kits Reply with quote

I'm building Bill Elliott's T-bird as driven in the 1985 Daytona race. I've changed the Monogram kit body heavily to give it a much narrower body, like I see in the photos.



The chassis, and specifically the top tubes in the engine bay, makes it difficult to reduce the wheel track, see photo. I might install another chassis or front clip if that helps.



Therefore my question: did Monogram ever reduce the wheel track of their Nascar models in subsequent years? On my model I measure 78 mm or 3 1/16" at the front (over the wheels) and 78.5 mm or 3 1/16" at the rear. Any help would be appreciated!

Rob
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Mack



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 232
Location: deep south

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you compared the width of the AMT Thunderbird frame rails and suspension components? You might graft the front clip from the AMT, Use all the AMT components including the engine and headers. Just a thought.
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"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may be able to slice enough off of the wheel backs to get the wheel/tire combo under your narrowed up body. I've done that little trick many times to get the wheel/tire combo to fit my lowered bodies. How much do you need to get it under the new narrowed up body?
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john843



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 175
Location: S.C. Lowcountry

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Fireball" wrote:
You may be able to slice enough off of the wheel backs to get the wheel/tire combo under your narrowed up body. I've done that little trick many times to get the wheel/tire combo to fit my lowered bodies. How much do you need to get it under the new narrowed up body?


Good idea. In the course of getting the wheels tucked up on the last couple that I've done, it looks like by just messing with the wheel/wheel backs you're able to pull each wheel in 3" to 3.5" scale inches. That's 6" to 7" inches but like Fireball asked, how much do you think you'll need?

John
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 184
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john843 wrote:
"Fireball" wrote:
You may be able to slice enough off of the wheel backs to get the wheel/tire combo under your narrowed up body. I've done that little trick many times to get the wheel/tire combo to fit my lowered bodies. How much do you need to get it under the new narrowed up body?


Good idea. In the course of getting the wheels tucked up on the last couple that I've done, it looks like by just messing with the wheel/wheel backs you're able to pull each wheel in 3" to 3.5" scale inches. That's 6" to 7" inches but like Fireball asked, how much do you think you'll need?

John


Guys - the O.P.'s problem is that the tires are gonna be bangin' up against the top tubes of the front clip bars...take another look.
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"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't recall having a tire clearance problem with the front hoop on any of the 'Birds that I've built, ever.
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spooker



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP has narrowed the body and wants to bring the tires in, that's where his problem lies. I think I'd rebuild the front hoop to be narrower and thin the brake "discs" on the wheel inners for a start. You could also thin the spindle and caliper, too.

Brian
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"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did his pic not already show the tires touching in the stock configuration?
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Rob de Bie



Joined: 27 Jun 2018
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry guys, I hadn't noticed there were so many replies! Thanks to all who commented.

I narrowed my Thunderbird body until it (more or less) agreed with photos of the 1985 Daytona race. The kit had a 62 inch wheel track, and I need to reduce that to 58 inch to get the wheels under the body. That's a 4.2 mm (11/64") total reduction, or 2.1 mm (5/64") on either side.

Right now there's some 4 mm between the tire and the top engine bay tubes. So theoretically I could shorten the control arms. But it will be tight with the dampers. That's why my first plan was to change the top longitudinal tubes to a more inboard position. That's what I see in more modern Nascars.

Removing the wheel backs means deleting the brake disc, right? A variant of that might be a very good idea, since I happen to use cast copies of the nine-hole wheels (the kit came with 5 hole wheels), with a separate disc. I could remove part of the boss on the wheel, and move the disc more inside the wheel.



An AMT Thunderbird is something I hadn't considered. I must admit that I'm not familiar with AMT Nascar kits, since I'm not sure whether they were sold here in the Netherlands. If someone could measure the wheel track (simply over the wheels), that would give an idea what kind of chassis is included.

Thanks again for all the ideas!

Rob
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Rob de Bie



Joined: 27 Jun 2018
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A brief update: this afternoon I removed the boss of one of my resin wheels, and the fit on the car (including brake disc) looks quite promising. The steering arm is in the way, I'll have to modify that before I know for sure. I hope to post a photo in a few days, but I'm away on a family visit right now.

Rob
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 184
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob de Bie wrote:
...I must admit that I'm not familiar with AMT Nascar kits, since I'm not sure whether they were sold here in the Netherlands. ...
Rob


If you are not familiar with the AMT Tbird kit, the first thing to know is it is 1:25 scale. The smaller size might be reason for fitting components in the reduced space.
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DarylH



Joined: 19 May 2018
Posts: 27
Location: Hooterville OH

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would try the AMT chassis snout or possibly the entire chassis for this project. I've not measured the differences of 1/25 vs 1/24 but by eye both kits have there own advantages.
This is a Monogram chassis with an AMT body that was stretched to fit, giving a slimmer and better looking front end to the car;

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Rob de Bie



Joined: 27 Jun 2018
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarylH wrote:
I would try the AMT chassis snout or possibly the entire chassis for this project. I've not measured the differences of 1/25 vs 1/24 but by eye both kits have there own advantages.
This is a Monogram chassis with an AMT body that was stretched to fit, giving a slimmer and better looking front end to the car;

That's great out-of-the-box thinking! It looks very nice indeed.

Rob
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Rob de Bie



Joined: 27 Jun 2018
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob de Bie wrote:
A brief update: this afternoon I removed the boss of one of my resin wheels, and the fit on the car (including brake disc) looks quite promising. The steering arm is in the way, I'll have to modify that before I know for sure. I hope to post a photo in a few days, but I'm away on a family visit right now.


My original resin wheel (seen at the left) had a boss that put the brake disc at the same position as in the plastic original. I made two test wheels: the middle one where I removed 2.0 mm, and the right one where I removed 2.5 mm. Not shown is the separate resin disc.



The effect of this modification is best shown on the rear axle: the whole brake caliper is now inside the rim. I test-fitted the rear axle with two modified wheels, and the fit is very close to what I was looking for, for my narrowed body.



Here's the test wheel with 2.5 mm removed on the front suspension. It does not fit completely: it conflicts with the steering arm. But if that is solved, the situation looks promising.



Rob
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Mack



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 232
Location: deep south

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarylH wrote:
I would try the AMT chassis snout or possibly the entire chassis for this project. I've not measured the differences of 1/25 vs 1/24 but by eye both kits have there own advantages.
This is a Monogram chassis with an AMT body that was stretched to fit, giving a slimmer and better looking front end to the car;



That is by far the best looking AMT Tbird I've ever seen. How did you stretch it?
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"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've checked the newer 'Bird kits, they have different front clips, mainly the lower control arms are a different type. Not correct for the 'Bird you're building. The tire/wheel assembly is actually wider on the AMT 'Bird, than the R/M 'Bird, go figure that one out. The AMT lower control arm/steering assy part should fit, and bring the track in close to what you're looking for. Use the AMT front hoop on the R/M chassis front clip, AMT rear diff, with R/M wheel/tire assy, and BAM!!! You should have the narrow track, with the correct suspension parts, front, and rear that you are looking for. Sorry, initially, I was looking at overall track width, tires, wheels, and all, for both built kits. However, when looking at the separate AMT components on the R/M chassis, less the wider AMT wheel/tire assy, its a totally different picture.
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Rob de Bie



Joined: 27 Jun 2018
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Fireball" wrote:
I've checked the newer 'Bird kits, they have different front clips, mainly the lower control arms are a different type. Not correct for the 'Bird you're building. The tire/wheel assembly is actually wider on the AMT 'Bird, than the R/M 'Bird, go figure that one out. The AMT lower control arm/steering assy part should fit, and bring the track in close to what you're looking for. Use the AMT front hoop on the R/M chassis front clip, AMT rear diff, with R/M wheel/tire assy, and BAM!!! You should have the narrow track, with the correct suspension parts, front, and rear that you are looking for. Sorry, initially, I was looking at overall track width, tires, wheels, and all, for both built kits. However, when looking at the separate AMT components on the R/M chassis, less the wider AMT wheel/tire assy, its a totally different picture.

Thanks a lot for diving deep in this subject! I thought I had a big problem that would be difficult to solve, but the modified wheels solved it completely. I can keep the Monogram components except for the steering arms on the spindles. It looks like the way to go for my model.

Rob
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