Randy Ayers Nascar Modeling Forums Forum Index Randy Ayers Nascar Modeling Forums

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

How would you fix...

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Randy Ayers Nascar Modeling Forums Forum Index -> Road Racers, Drag Racers, Open Wheels, Modifieds, Late Models, ect
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
sentsat71



Joined: 03 Feb 2018
Posts: 288
Location: Fenton, IA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: How would you fix... Reply with quote

the rear frame, suspension of the old AMT '65 Chevelle Modified Stocker so it does not stick up so high in the rear?
_________________
Ed. K
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dirtman



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think David just did a tutorial on STM forum, on a '65 Falcon that you might find useful.

Rett
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Speedn Steven



Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a tricky one-I pulled one of mine from the closet and the rear end mounts under the springs. I would normally say just put it on top but the frame kick up is REALLY slight, almost flat. The fact it doesn't match where the axle goes is another matter.

I would use the kit springs, flip them over and arch them down till you get the right height. Not elegant but about the simplest way I can think of.

Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd use an altogether different third member, and spring setup, myself. I don't like the kit third member, at all. If staying with the kit parts, I'd remove the front mounting pads for the leaf springs on the frame up to the mold line on the frame, about 1/4", and maybe reinforce the top of the frame with a strip of plastic for frame strength right above where you removed the 1/4" from the frame. If more lowering is needed, remove some material from the half circle spring mount for the diff tubes, and if more lowering is needed, file down the area on the diff tubes where it mates with the spring. A combination of the aforementioned mods should get you where you need to be. Hope this helps, and let us know what you end up doing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom M.
Board Moderator


Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Fireball" wrote:
I'd use an altogether different third member, and spring setup, myself. I don't like the kit third member, at all. If staying with the kit parts, I'd remove the front mounting pads for the leaf springs on the frame up to the mold line on the frame, about 1/4", and maybe reinforce the top of the frame with a strip of plastic for frame strength right above where you removed the 1/4" from the frame. If more lowering is needed, remove some material from the half circle spring mount for the diff tubes, and if more lowering is needed, file down the area on the diff tubes where it mates with the spring. A combination of the aforementioned mods should get you where you need to be. Hope this helps, and let us know what you end up doing.


That's my favorite kit quick change of all time! It's not very well detailed but it's the only one ever tooled that I'm aware of that replicates the Franklands we all ran back in the '60s that used the steel left side housing and spindle from a '40s Ford 3/4 ton pickup split housing, bolted to a Frankland center section.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
spooker



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, old school for sure. FYI, AMT also did that style QC in their Willys coupe/pickup kit.

Brian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Super Stocker kits, like Trickle's Mustang have a nice quick change diff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sentsat71



Joined: 03 Feb 2018
Posts: 288
Location: Fenton, IA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would taking the rear clip from an AMT NASCAR kit be another simple solution? Maybe even the front clip? I would like to keep the kit parts for the interior...Though not sure how the front clip for a NASCAR kit would affect the Malibu's kit engine.....
_________________
Ed. K
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spooker



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rear clip from one of the better quality GM models would be a more period correct solution. A Chevelle, Olds or ElCamino frame from the mid-60's to the mid-70's would work nicely. Or use the entire frame and scratch-build a better looking rollcage. The '66 Olds kit, among others, would give you a very detailed front suspension as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the rules stated that they had to use the factory frame, not sure beyond that, what had to be factory. Obviously the quick change diff was allowed for quick gear ratio changes for the various, and many tracks they ran, back then. For back in the time, of this release, this kit is fairly accurate, for a OOB build. Yes, there are many other ways to get there, for a more accurate build. Your mileage may vary. I love these old kits, brings back fond memories.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spooker



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rules were different in different areas. Here in upstate NY, we were allowed to intermix frames and bodies within each manufacturer, so any GM frame could be used under any GM body. The frame in the Chevelle Mod Stocker is a poor representation of a Chevelle frame, at best. Our motors had to match the make, Chevy in Chevy body, Buick in Buick body, etc. I am doing a Chevelle Mod Stocker with some cage mods and I am reworking the rear kick-ups to lower the stance while trying to use as many kit parts as possible (don't ask me why!). It would be far easier to substitute a '57 Chevy frame for an early '70's car or a better Chevelle frame for a late '70's car.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom M.
Board Moderator


Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spooker wrote:
Rules were different in different areas. Here in upstate NY, we were allowed to intermix frames and bodies within each manufacturer, so any GM frame could be used under any GM body. The frame in the Chevelle Mod Stocker is a poor representation of a Chevelle frame, at best. Our motors had to match the make, Chevy in Chevy body, Buick in Buick body, etc. I am doing a Chevelle Mod Stocker with some cage mods and I am reworking the rear kick-ups to lower the stance while trying to use as many kit parts as possible (don't ask me why!). It would be far easier to substitute a '57 Chevy frame for an early '70's car or a better Chevelle frame for a late '70's car.


I think NASCAR began to require the same year and make of frame starting in '70 or '71. Outlaw pavement cars in the Southeast were never picky about that, Jody Ridley and many of the Ford guys ran '55-'56 Ford frames under their Falcons and Mustangs (the AMT '56 Thunderbird has a nice separate frame that's very correct for those cars, Ford even adjusted the wheelbase for you) and many Chevelles, Novas, and Camaros had '55-'57 Chevy frames.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/quote]I think NASCAR began to require the same year and make of frame starting in '70 or '71. Outlaw pavement cars in the Southeast were never picky about that, Jody Ridley and many of the Ford guys ran '55-'56 Ford frames under their Falcons and Mustangs (the AMT '56 Thunderbird has a nice separate frame that's very correct for those cars, Ford even adjusted the wheelbase for you) and many Chevelles, Novas, and Camaros had '55-'57 Chevy frames.[/quote]
Different rules for different bodies of racing, especially outlaw tracks. Guess I was thinking more of the NASCAR Limited Sportsman, and Sportsman Divisions, and guessing both Ford, and GM frames were probably used from around '55 to '69, just re-bodied the same frames with newer body styles. Did NASCAR allow the use of quick change diffs in the aforementioned divisions? The Sportsman Division eventually became the Busch Series.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom M.
Board Moderator


Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My local tracks at Pensacola and Mobile were unsanctioned but the NASCAR legal Late Models from Birmingham and Montgomery raced with us a lot, I'm much more familiar with the Late Model Sportsman rules than the Limited Sportsman rules. Mobile tried to run a Limited Sportsman division for a couple of years in the '73-'74 time frame and they didn't allow quick changes but I'm not sure what the NASCAR rule was for the Limited cars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom M. wrote:
My local tracks at Pensacola and Mobile were unsanctioned but the NASCAR legal Late Models from Birmingham and Montgomery raced with us a lot, I'm much more familiar with the Late Model Sportsman rules than the Limited Sportsman rules. Mobile tried to run a Limited Sportsman division for a couple of years in the '73-'74 time frame and they didn't allow quick changes but I'm not sure what the NASCAR rule was for the Limited cars.

The Limited Sportsman Division at Hickory allowed six cylinder cars, such as Roger Starnes, and Jerry Fox's '56 Fords to be competitive with the GM V-8 powered cars of that Division. The Sportsman Division was faster, more powerful, and quicker. That was the Division that Gant, Ard, Pressley, Ingram, Houston, and the big names ran in. Thanks for the frame tip on the '56 T-Bird, never realized that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gary66
Board Moderator


Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 70
Location: Kannapolis N.C.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
many of the Ford guys ran '55-'56 Ford frames under their Falcons and Mustang


This car was built and raced in 1970 at Concord, Metrolina, and Starlite. It had a cut down 1956 frame. Owned by Wayne Fitzpatrick and driven by Hayward Plyler.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Tom M.
Board Moderator


Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That AMT '56 Thunderbird is an overlooked kit, it was issued just when AMT/ERTL was in the process of dying and being sold and it was originally marketed as an American Graffiti kit so a lot of serious modelers ignored it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
john843



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 175
Location: S.C. Lowcountry

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The AMT/Ertle '56 T-Bird seems to be pretty plentiful on-line. Both the Am. Graffiti that Tom mentioned and the "Classic" version are available from $15-$25 depending on who you shop with.
Got to admit, I had never considered it for anything stock car related til reading Tom's post.

John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sentsat71



Joined: 03 Feb 2018
Posts: 288
Location: Fenton, IA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spooker wrote;
Quote:
The rear clip from one of the better quality GM models would be a more period correct solution. A Chevelle, Olds or ElCamino frame from the mid-60's to the mid-70's would work nicely. Or use the entire frame and scratch-build a better looking rollcage. The '66 Olds kit, among others, would give you a very detailed front suspension as well.


Thanks for the info.....
_________________
Ed. K
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sentsat71 wrote:
Spooker wrote;
Quote:
The rear clip from one of the better quality GM models would be a more period correct solution. A Chevelle, Olds or ElCamino frame from the mid-60's to the mid-70's would work nicely. Or use the entire frame and scratch-build a better looking rollcage. The '66 Olds kit, among others, would give you a very detailed front suspension as well.


Thanks for the info.....

That's what I'd do. Just thought you were trying to stay with an out of the box build.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sentsat71



Joined: 03 Feb 2018
Posts: 288
Location: Fenton, IA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fireball,
that was my intention until I took a close look at the instructions and the frame....after I made the original post.. I just knew the rear frame clip was not done right by AMT and really jacked up the rear of the car.....
I have a lead on a '70 Chevelle....as the frame would be used for the '65 Malibu and the body towards an old MPC Super Stocker kit that does not have a body at the present time, but was one of the 1st Super Stocker kits issued in the '70's.
_________________
Ed. K
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
"Fireball"



Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe try warming the rear frame rails up, and putting a kick-up in that way. Just for kicks, and grins, to see where that takes you. As mentioned, you can always put another chassis in, if it doesn't work out to your liking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sentsat71



Joined: 03 Feb 2018
Posts: 288
Location: Fenton, IA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a thought, until I saw how simple the front suspension was.....in a way the front clip is as bad as the rear frame....will have to see what I can come up with....

Oh, but the way, that's what I did with my original build 40+ years ago...but AFTER it was together....heated the frame where it joins the floor pan area and bent the rear of the frame well up into the trunk area. fixed the rear ride height problem, but couldn't get over how it looked when I decided to look at the build from the bottom....Yep....trashed it, saving the wheels/tires and converted an old build from around 1970 of the old AMT '69 Torino with the NASCAR interior, to my version of a Modified Stocker, just before AMT came out with their version.....LOL
_________________
Ed. K
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Randy Ayers Nascar Modeling Forums Forum Index -> Road Racers, Drag Racers, Open Wheels, Modifieds, Late Models, ect All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group