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Comments on Salvino's Roadrunner kit...

 
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spooker



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
Posts: 437

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:00 pm    Post subject: Comments on Salvino's Roadrunner kit... Reply with quote

Well, I should have known better! I have been a vocal critic of Salvino's lack of accuracy and detail in their "historic" stock car kits. I purchased ONE Baker Grey Ghost kit when first released, couldn't believe what I saw, and haven't (until now) purchased any more. When I heard about the Roadrunner, I waited to hear what others thought, didn't really hear much so I waited some more. The other day, when I saw that Mike Herman had bagged Roadrunner donor kits and his excellent Dick Brooks sheet available as a package, so I decided to try again. Got it today. Took 10 or 15 minutes to look thru the parts of the "new" Roadrunner kit and I am amazed at how much HASN'T changed. Still a generic, "close enough" chassis & engine, mostly copied from MPC's old kits. Seat bolster still on the wrong side, soft detail, and SO many ejector pin marks. I counted 16 on the rear chassis piece alone. Had to pull out an original MPC kit to compare. Their rear chassis piece has FOUR ejector pin marks. Come on! Still that totally non-prototypical rear axle (what is it, anyway?), leaf springs with no leaf detail, just plain toy-like overall. Anyone want it (PM me)? I'll use the great Powerslide decals on an original MPC Roadrunner body I still have, scratch up a chassis from my parts bin! Lesson re-learned!
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jh63fan



Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 348
Location: Tarheel State

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just ordered one the other day. I heard the complaints but figured a resin body and good decals would be $50 or more. Haven't heard of anyone doing this, but I was going to try using the Polar Lights Talladega chassis. If that doesn't work, maybe the AMT 68 Roadrunner. I get where you are coming from. Should be able to turn out a fairly accurate model out of the box.
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hemiman_1999



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 296

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:41 am    Post subject: Its a Freeking mass produced plastic model car Reply with quote

Its a Freeking mass produced plastic model car not everything you buy for 35 dollars will be a Tiffany Jewell the companies do the best they can for the money they will be spending on tooling I have been building model car since I was 10-11 about 1961 I don't think I have ever seen a perfect model. Build it if it you don't like it take IT BACK... Remember this is a dying Hobby most of us will be gone 15-25 years and the kids are not interested so the kit manufactures have to make it now in say 12 years its over for them. Then it will be 20-30 guys trying to sell the Vintage Mint Toys for hundreds of dollars..And no ONE is buying any of them.
Build it have Fun 40 years from now it will be stuff your family is cleaning out of the basement anyway.
OK LET IT ALL BEGIN...
Bruce.....
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spooker



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
Posts: 437

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Bruce, but a modern model company should be able to produce a kit that doesn't look like a clone of a kit from 1972! 50 years of technology progress should have made SOME improvements! All my hobbies are dying so I don't concern myself too much with that, it is what it is. I guess if my opinion of a kit can't be shared to prevent like-minded modelers from wasting their money, then I guess this forum wouldn't be serving ALL modelers very well. Someone with more time on their hands than me should research the rate of increase in model car prices with the overall inflation rate, one of us might be surprised!

PS - My family will be cleaning out my stuff a lot sooner than 40 years!
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DaveVan



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 1571

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salvinos is taking a big risk investing cash in a niche business.

They are spending a good amount of cash on that business.

They are producing items many of us have asked for for many years.

I have bought many, not all, kits offered....much of it in support.

That all said. Salvinos has made a larger than average number of errors in their kits. From leaf springs on Baker's OLDS, over sized bumpers, rear bumper isses on the 2+2 etc. Then the accuracy issues. NO NASCAR chassis ever had a transmission tunnel the size they made on their 70's era chassis. Strange as it looks just like the error on the Polar Lights Charger kit??? The 'corrected' trailing arm suspension was done in 1/32 scale....so the 'fix' needed to be fixed.

To see how it should be done, spending the same money, look at Moebius. A company that had never done a model car kit. Big difference was they asked for input from the 1/1 car people and the model kit people. All that input made a kit above average.

Bottom line is we are a older demographic. We are also, for the most part, informed hobbyists. Many of us were in the NASCAR garage when these 70's era cars were current. We know first hand what is right or wrong on a model. And at $40+ we expect a level of 'correct-ness'. No model kit is perfect. Build a Palmer kit and then a Tamiya F1 racer. We expect something in between, closer to the Tamiya, and that should be obtainable in today's CAD design world.
Thanks...old man done

BTW Salvinos....I did start my own model company....a few of them.
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TN Vols fan



Joined: 18 Jan 2022
Posts: 255
Location: Crossett, AR

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I appreciate the information, good or bad, from Spooker, DaveVan, and other's concerning all of the Salvino's kits. Is it costing Salvino's a customer? Possibly but I don't care. As much as kits cost, they can doggone sure manufacturer a kit worthy of the cost. I did get one of the Salvino's modified kits, after what I've read we'll see how it goes. I have little use for poorly produced products. Not really a Salvino's thing, but I do not support the 1:1 NASCAR next gen car, I won't be purchasing the next gen models.
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Last edited by TN Vols fan on Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Duane Garner



Joined: 03 Feb 2022
Posts: 93
Location: Clovis, NM

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well guys, here goes: I've been model building for 62 years and haven't seen a perfect kit yet. I build for the enjoyment and entertainment value. The majority of kits I buy are what interests me, either for the subject or for the parts I can use on other projects. Prices: face the facts everything costs more. Bought my first kit at Mitchell's Drug Store for 29 cents, how extravagant! I'm pleased with everything the hits the market, it gives me the opportunity to build something of interest or not! Thee forums give me the opportunity to gather information to help me decide if I'm willing to invest time and money into a particular kit. I appreciate all the constructive criticism I can find to help the process. Relax, enjoy, share the good and bad. It's a terrific hobby!
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jh63fan



Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 348
Location: Tarheel State

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Duane. Like I said, don't like several things about the Salvino kits, but it hasn't stopped me from buying about 20 of them. Something to start with.
I've been at it for a little over 50 years now. My trip down memory lane. I would mow a lawn for $2 and go buy a kit and can of paint with it
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jh63fan



Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 348
Location: Tarheel State

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Roadrunner kits came in today. Tried the body on a Polar Lights Talladega assembled frame and it was about 1/8" too long. Roll cage fit pretty good. So I guess I 'll shorten the frame behind the driver's seat, use the best parts from both kits and maybe an engine from the AMT Roadrunner.
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spooker



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
Posts: 437

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

P/L Charger chassis is an almost perfect fit OOB.
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jh63fan



Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 348
Location: Tarheel State

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spooker wrote:
P/L Charger chassis is an almost perfect fit OOB.


Thanks Spooker, that combo totally slipped my mind. It would also be more accurate since that supposedly based that kit on Petty's car.
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Mark C.



Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2¢ is that it really depends upon what you want out of the hobby. Some of us strive for an exact, 100% correct replica of the real item, and are willing to do what it takes to get there. Some of us just want to have fun building cool-looking models that look good on the shelf when we're done. I'm more in the second camp, though I occasionally wander into the fringes of the first.

The Salvinos vintage kits have been mostly a win for me. There are some aspects that feel a little sketchy, and some have come out better than others, but overall the level is acceptable to me. The Mopars that have come out in the past couple of years are the best of the bunch, in my opinion. The body proportions are pretty good for the most part, and the finished model has the right stance and looks good on the shelf. Would I like a kit that's 100% true to the original? Sure, but then I don't think I would want to pay what it would cost for that 'perfect kit'.

I'll sum it up with a copy/paste of my opinion of vintage NASCAR kits that I had previously posted in another thread:

"Other than the old MPC and AMT reissues (which I'm also thankful for), before Salvinos, if you wanted to buy an early 1970s Mopar NASCAR kit, you'd have to shell out a fortune for an old MPC kit, or try to piece one together on your own (like I started to do with an MPC '71 Road Runner kit combined with a 1980s MPC kit for the chassis) - the Polar Lights kits were good to have, but the Charger body was a nightmare (the Fords were a little better).

So, I'm just happy to be able to get the subject matter at non-collector prices and am actually excited to see what they will bring out next. While the Olds and Monte bodies had some obvious issues, the Chargers and Satellites look much better to me. Bring 'em on!"
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spooker



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
Posts: 437

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had promised myself I wasn't going to comment in this thread any more, having got my point across. However, as it has remained civil, and has generated some insightful comment, I want to make a few more myself.

To wrap up on the Roadrunner, I had read somewhere that people were having trouble with the fit of the intake manifold, so I decided to get at least far enough to see if that was so. I have NOT seen any fit issues with the intake, so that is good. I will get back to the Roadrunner some time in the future, but I started another, eagerly awaited, kit manufactured by Salvino's, the current-style asphalt modified. I have been around these cars for almost my entire life and can say with some authority, that these are spot-on as far as look, stance and MOST details. I do have to mention ejector pin marks again, as I mentioned in the RR comments, there sure are a LOT of them. I ask again, if MPC in 1972 could make a part with the technology of the day with FOUR pins, why can't a modern company with the technology of NOW have to use SIXTEEN for a virtually identical part? The modified kit has them everywhere, sometimes on the most visible side of a part, rather than the more hidden side. But now for the MAIN complaint with the modified kit. Literally EVERY locator pin/hole or location boss/recess DOESN'T fit unless you open up the hole, or reduce the boss or pin. This is all during dry-fit, no paint involved. Not a big deal, you say? Well, I haven't (& won't) count the number of pins/holes or bosses/recesses, but there are a LOT of them. This slows down the whole assembly process greatly, and heaven forbid you miss one until too late! An example is the air cleaner base doesn't fit on the carburetor top, so just open up the hole, you say. Right, & repeat that a hundred more times with every part. As I get older, I value my time more & more, so my modeling has changed from super-detail & scratchbuilding to neat & clean assembly OOB. I have a lot of kits I'd like to build, and if I put all the detail I can into each one I won't build more than 1 or 2 a year, if that. So parts fit is my main consideration when deciding to invest my time in a build. Considering all I have done on this first modified kit (still not done), I have decided it will be my last. I had planned on doing a few, at least, with Ace's nice decals.

This is just my opinion, of course, but I just can't believe a current manufacturer can't make alignment pins and holes a slip-fit, rather than an interference fit! Seems simple, but then....
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Mark C.



Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appreciate the heads-up on that. I haven't purchased a modified kit as they have been limited production and priced higher than other similar kits, plus I don't really have a connection to modern modifieds. My thing is mostly NASCAR and local short track cars from the 1970s and earlier.

I'm wondering if the ejector pin and locator pin thing might still be part of the learning curve of being a relatively new company. Sounds like one of those things that gets worked out in the culture of the company as it collectively gains more experience, but I can't really comment as I'm not in the industry.

As a comparison, though, I just read a fellow modeler's review of the new Round 2 2021 Charger kit on the Spotlight Hobbies board, and it is just the opposite, that the parts fit perfectly right out of the box. According to his report, the locator pin fit was perfect to the point that you have to try to avoid getting paint on them as it will interfere with the fit. So... older company, different culture?

Regardless, as mentioned I'm still pleased that I can buy kits of my favourite vintage of stock cars at non-collector prices, and will support Salvinos kits, warts and all, as long as they are a reasonable representation of the real thing when the 'rubber' hits the road... Smile
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spooker



Joined: 11 Feb 2018
Posts: 437

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, I appreciate and agree with your comments! I just can't come to grips with ANYONE with molding experience not knowing that location pins and bosses need a certain amount of clearance. It's just basic to the process, for any plastic moldings that need to be aligned and assembled (esp. if they need to be painted or chromed). Maybe the ejector pin increase is a by-product of the newer formulation of styrene plastic. As anyone that's been modeling for a long time can tell you, the newer kits have what seems to me to be a softer plastic. Probably a result of environmentally induced ingredient changes. It might be that the newer plastic "sticks" in the mold more and requires more pins to push it out, I don't know. All I know is there are a LOT more pin marks in the new kits, as well as sink marks, which may also be a result of the modern plastic formulation. I'll continue to buy a few new kits here & there, but only from companies that have proved to me that they have it all figured out, like Ebbro, whose fit and quality have even surpassed Tamiya's legendary reputation in some instances.
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2002p51



Joined: 06 Nov 2018
Posts: 69
Location: Kingsport, TN

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's refreshing for me to see a post about the Salvinos kits that tells the truth about their lack of accuracy. I was beginning to think I was the only one who realized that the emperor had no clothes. I bought one of the Oldsmobiles and '78 Monte Carlos when they first hit the market and was disappointed in both. First, they contained a direct knock-off of the early '70s MPC chassis that was incorrect even when it was new. I also thought both bodies were poorly done. The nose on the Monte Carlo is too sharply peaked, the C pillar is too wide, etc. All you have to do is look at the photo of the actual cars on the box art and you can see the problems. Was I wrong for expecting something better after almost 50 years of improvements in research availability and design techniques? Companies like Moebius and Tamiya can do it. And Salvinos price point is right in there with the higher quality kits. After trying to work with those two kits, they both ended up in the bin and I never bought another. Now they have done a modern asphalt modified. I am one of those modelers who have been wanting a modified kit forever and, quite the opposite of their NASCAR kits, these are very well done. And I know the reason why. Rather than knock-off an old kit,(because there isn't one) they actually contacted several real modified teams, went to their shops and took measurements and about a million photos of actual cars. And it shows in the result of the kit. Are there fit issues? Yes. Tolerances are extremely tight. The best thing to do is trim off many of the mounting pins, especially those on the engine plates. Take your time, test fit every thing and don't be afraid to trim stuff to make them fit better. The result is a model that captures the look of these exciting cars very well. I've built five of them so far and have two more in progress. So, for the modifieds, Salvinos gets a B+ to A. For their NASCAR kits, a solid F.
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Last edited by 2002p51 on Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DaveVan



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 1571

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

..agree
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WR



Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they are a knock off of an old kit and that is so bad then why do the old kits bring such a high price when trying to buy one.
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DaveVan



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 1571

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any vintage kit that is long out of production is going to cost more than a current kit MSRP. The classic MPC kits that were never re-issued have a number of things going for them. Nostalgia for one. Many feel the bodies were MUCH better than new kits, And while the chassis on the classic old MPC NASCAR kits were kinda crude, IMHO they are still better than Salvinos 70's era chassis. That transmission tunnel is HUGE on the JR kit, not easy to fix and is an error that was easy to avoid.
It boils down to numbers. Very few MPC mint kits on the market.......TONS of JR kits out there.
Buy what makes YOU happy.
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bangor boy



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 447

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a very informative WIP about the Petty Roadrunner going on here:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/177390-salvinos-jr-71-petty-plymouth/#comments
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Danny Woodford



Joined: 22 Jul 2020
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Salvino’s kits. I only wish they would put more of the classic stuff out faster. The older stuff from the 70’s from AMT and Mpc are pitiful and way more $$$ than a Salvino kit. I seriously don’t understand the whining about their stuff.
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Tom M.
Board Moderator


Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 600

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny Woodford wrote:
I like Salvino’s kits. I only wish they would put more of the classic stuff out faster. The older stuff from the 70’s from AMT and Mpc are pitiful and way more $$$ than a Salvino kit. I seriously don’t understand the whining about their stuff.


Pointing out the deficiencies isn't whining, they take renderings they find online for the bodies and don't vet them to ensure they look correct and are properly proportioned. The chassis are crude representations at best, with generic engines that only bear a passing resemblance to what they represent. I can correct the engines and chassis but fixing the bodies ranges from difficult to virtually impossible (in the case of the Monte Carlo). The old MPC kits had well proportioned bodies that generally only required minor tweaking to more closely resemble the as-raced look.
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Lionpride



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said, Tom.
Measure twice, cut once.
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TN Vols fan



Joined: 18 Jan 2022
Posts: 255
Location: Crossett, AR

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent comment Tom.
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"Many men fish all their lives without knowing it is not the fish they are after." Henry David Thoreau

"I am, Sir, a brother of the angle" quote from The Compleat Angler, lzzak Walton 1654
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Mark C.



Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While these criticisms are definitely on point for the Monte Carlo, and to some extent the Cutlass, I think the Satellite/Roadrunner and Charger bodies are not bad - not perfect but reasonably good representations that look good on the shelf.

I can live with the chassis, though I wish somebody would actually come out with a good representation of a NASCAR Mopar chassis from the early 1970s (nobody has yet, to my knowledge).

The modern NASCARS look reasonably good as well. Just my opinion, and I don't tend to be a rivet counter, so take it for what it's worth. I don't have any modified kits, and probably won't.
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Crime Dog



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 332

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just opened mine after several months in storage, promptly put it back in storage. Evil or Very Mad ..deadhorse
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