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Paul Goldsmith Plymouth Belvedere 1964 colors

 
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kjohan



Joined: 14 Feb 2022
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:10 pm    Post subject: Paul Goldsmith Plymouth Belvedere 1964 colors Reply with quote

I recently bought the Lindberg Kit of the Paul Glodsmith ´64 Plymouth.
If possible as in the Daytona 500 ´64.
Have tried on the net to find info/ photos about the items below,
related to the interior and engi/engine bay.
What I found is not so clear. To make things worse , the instructions are for me rather contradictory to what I have found.
Have also searched on other cars, where there is some info on the Jimmy Pardue car, taken at the Southern 500 ,Darlington a little later in the year,
I understand it as the Pardue car was built by Ray Nichels as well as the Paul G car, so there should perhaps be some similarity, but of course not necessarily identical.

Therefore I turn to this forum for help.

1) The inner door and side panels
The instructions says white.
Have found a YT-clip, which is said to be from Daytona ´64
It is taken inside the car from "right to left", showing mainly Paul
himself, but a small piece of the upper part of the door panel.
And that is very clearly red.
Have also an exterior photo of the cars lined up before the start,
where one could assume a visible red shading from the interior.
There is a very good photo of Pardue inside HIS car,
with unpainted sheet metal panels (alu I assume)
So there are the alternaives:
- white as in the instructions
- red as in the YT clip of what is said to be the Paul G car @Daytona
- unpainted metal as in the Jimmy P car
I lean towards the red

2) The inner floor
Have not fond anything on the Paul G car nor any other
The instructions say : white
But if the door and side panels were painted red,
red would be logical also on the floor ?
( perhaps some area grey if an asbestos sheet was used ? )
What would be the best bet here for the Paul G car ?

3) The engine bay with firewall and inner side panels there
Have found no photos of Paul G car engine bay
The bay in Pardue car is red , same red as the exterior
The instructions say white
So what would be correct here for the Paul G car ?

In short the instructions say white, where I have direct or indirect indications of red
Naturally it can be that the body/car for Paul G was shipped white (or primed light grey only) and in the rush for Daytona specifically, there was no time to paint red everywhere, perhaps painted a little later in the season ???

4) The engine
The instructions say Chrysler blue
Have not found anything myself on the Paul G car
but a couple of good photo of the Pardue engine @Darlington;
the typical Hemi orange
I understand that the engines fo Daytona were delivered also in a great
hurry, perhaps at first stage not with the regular orange paint
Or they actually were orange alread at Daytona ???

Sorry for the long post, I am a little confused what would be the best way to paint to make it a representative Paul G,
So advices are much appreciated

First time I post in this forum, so there may be some mistakes, if so I am sorry for that
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Dennis O
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go with what your research tells you. The kit instructions provide a best guess of what the car looked like at one point in time. Your research tells you what it looked like at the point in time you want.
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Tom M.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Door panels at Daytona were the factory red interior, a mix of paint and vinyl. At some point not long after Daytona the vinyl was removed and the interior was spray-bombed black. Front floor from pedals to the main cage hoop behind the seat was off-white/pale gray because it was an asbestos mat. The floor under the mat, and the uncovered areas in front and behind the mat would have been the factory gray primer dip. No bodies in white in '64, they were built from assembly line cars. Rear firewall looks to be painted red at Daytona.

Body color was '64 Plymouth "Ruby", a nonmetallic blood red.
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kjohan



Joined: 14 Feb 2022
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dennis and Tom for very helpfu information.l
May I bring forward one further question:
What was the color on the "outside " of the floor ?
Red ? Primer grey ?
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Tom M.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't access my photo host at work but I have a couple of photos of the bottom of Goldsmith's '64 from Atlanta. They're B&W but they'll give you a general idea. I'll try to remember to post them when I get home if no one beats me to it.
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kjohan



Joined: 14 Feb 2022
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tom so very much for your help and spendibg time on my questions.
There is no rush , will not start the build until a couple of months, have a couple of others to finish before.

Do you have any photos from engine bay also ?
If so would it be possible to post ?

Concerning the engine color in particular :
what would you think on the correct color,
particularily if I aim for something like Daytona ;
Chrysler blue as in the kit instructions
or the "regular Hemi orange" as on the Pardue car a couple of months after Daytona.
I noted also on the Pardue engine, that the valve covers were orange,
something I have seen on other presumably early NASCAR engines.
Otherwise the hemi valve covers mostly show up as black,
but it seems that orange covers were the practise in the early days ?

Again thanks for helping
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out this video of the '64 Daytona 500 at about the 2:40 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPdOgM2MWsE
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kjohan



Joined: 14 Feb 2022
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice on the YT clip.
That plus Tom´s info gives good info on the interior.
What remains is the underside, where again Tom might have something good,
and the engine (orange or as per instructions blue)
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james220



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
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Location: Roanoke VA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pictures I've seen of the Hemi at Daytona is all orange, I believe they were delivered in that color, although it looks to be a more transparent orange then what was later called Hemi-orange. Tom probably knows for sure. I have seen pictures of the Petty's installing a hemi at Darlington and the block is more Petty blue.
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Tom M.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FEyKPO_cXEAAq0ig%3Fformat%3Djpg%26name%3Dlarge&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FBasso488%2Fstatus%2F1379041125957312515&tbnid=vyp569tpdJBoOM&vet=12ahUKEwjnlZuYmKP2AhUNtlMKHeCFDgAQMygCegQIARAv..i&docid=o0wufh1vsGMhPM&w=1687&h=1125&itg=1&q=goldsmith%20atlanta%201964&ved=2ahUKEwjnlZuYmKP2AhUNtlMKHeCFDgAQMygCegQIARAv
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Firefly



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great underside shot from Tom. Note the front stabilizer bar that Nichels re-located through the K-member. In factory form that thing really hangs down.
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kjohan



Joined: 14 Feb 2022
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tom for the fine photo
Thanks Bill for the comment on the repositioned front stabilizer

Judging from the B&W nuances it seems, at least to me, that the underside was red rather than grey ???
(Judgement based on similarity in nuance with the underside of the sills, presumably red)
The flip clip is difficult to see, so short and a bit blurry untill ther car is at rest, then the underside is away from the camera
But if anything there is perhaps a short faint glare of red while the car is still skidding?????
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Firefly



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black underside, but the red seen at the sides could be overspray from the body paint job. Radiator bracket looks red.


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kjohan



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bill
That was creative
And most helpful, the oil pan visible and orange
That is the engine was orange at least at Atlanta
And the tanl also visible
Now I have the answers on the questions I had, and more
Thanks all who helped in this
Now it is up to me to find the time to build, having a couple of others waiting
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