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Randy Ayers Nascar Modeling Forums
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Firefly
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 810 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:54 pm Post subject: 1977 OLDS 442 CHASSIS PICS - Good reference for '70s cars |
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These are of Cale's BUSCH Olds. Basically the same design and construction as most non-Mopar '70s cars. The headers are somewhat unique though...
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odcics2
Joined: 09 Feb 2018 Posts: 283
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Outstanding stuff.
The 180 degree headers made Cale's car sound like a bunch of angry hornets! I heard it at MIS in 1977-78, IIRC.
Later heard that they did NOTHING for HP, but DID make the other teams waste time chasing their tails to develop 180 headers for themselves.
This allowed Cale & Jr. to rack up wins and Championships with good, basic, engineering and preparation.
Good find, Firefly! |
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Mack
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 732 Location: deep south
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Is it just me, or does that chassis look a lot like the Monogram early 80s' though the early 90s' GM chassis? Looks close enough for me. _________________ life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid. John Wayne |
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mprmprmpr
Joined: 29 Jan 2018 Posts: 296 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Mack wrote: | Is it just me, or does that chassis look a lot like the Monogram early 80s' though the early 90s' GM chassis? Looks close enough for me. |
The front suspension is like the Ford kits.
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Bluesman Mark
Joined: 01 Mar 2018 Posts: 25
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:58 am Post subject: |
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mprmprmpr wrote: | Mack wrote: | Is it just me, or does that chassis look a lot like the Monogram early 80s' though the early 90s' GM chassis? Looks close enough for me. |
The front suspension is like the Ford kits.
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In both cases it certainly should, as when NASCAR downsized the cars from a 115" wheelbase to a 110" one for the 81 season, nothing else was changed. Other than the few Mopars left through 1980 running torsion bars in fron & leaf springs in the rear, (& I think they still used the corporate 8 3/4" Mopar rear end then, & not the Ford 9"), the NASCAR chassis of coil springs all the way around, a rear steer Ford Galaxie snout, long GM truck arms in the rear & a Ford 9" rear end had been pretty much standardized since the 1974 season, when the 70/71 Torino & Cyclone models, with their coil spring fronts & leaf spring rears were no longer eligible for the Cup series, due to the three year eligibility rules in effect then. Bobby Allison & Mike Laughlin had developed the Camaro based front steer chassis, but prior to the downsizing Bobby was one of the few using it.
After the downsizing it began to get more prevalent, especially with GM cars, because the design of the SBC oil pan made everything a tighter fit once they went to the 110" wheelbase. Eventually that became the standard front snout, again because of packaging. For 81, NASCAR standardized the platform for all cars, regardless of make, to run coils all the way around, the Ford 9" rear, GM long truck arms, & either a Camaro or Galaxie front snout, & starting with the downsizing, using the floorpans from the Ford Fox based platform, (Mustang, Fairmont, LTD II).
Such things as this, (& other things both before & after the 81 season), are what makes me laugh when people rant about how much the cars have been changed, saying that "They need to go back to stock cars!" Technically they haven't been "stock" since waaaay before 1981. Yes, they used more production based parts back then, but no car ever rolled off a Detroit assembly line with a Ford 9" rear end, 60s GM long trailing arms for that rear end, & a 1965 Ford Galaxie front end, which was SOP from 1974 on. "Stock" even back then, (& earlier), was open to interpretation,
The roots of that chassis actually start when Junior Johnson ran the long truck arms on his 65 & 66 Galaxies, (having had them on the Ray Fox 63 Impala, & liking how they helped a coil sprung rear end to handle). The next step away from the stock chassis was when Ford went from the 119" wheelbase Galaxies & Mercurys in late 66 & 67, to the Fairlanes & Comets.
The shock tower front end of those unibodied mid size cars didn't adapt well to racing, (though Bud Moore did try that setup on his cars at first), so Ralph Moody adapted the 65 Galaxie front snout to the leaf spring rear platform of the Fairlanes & tied the unibody front & rear clips together with tubing running down the side rockers. This was known as the "half chassis" design. Junior Johnson adapted the Galaxie snout to the 71 Monte Carlo he built, & from there, we were off & running. When Ford switched their mid size cars from a leaf spring rear end to coils all the way around for the 1972 model year, the "NASCAR chassis" as we know it became standard, other than for Mopars at the time.
The width & track of the cars all stayed the same for 81, from previous years, as NASCAR & the teams found that going to a more narrow width like the same versions of their factory stock showroom counterparts looked totally wrong, & also Goodyear was able to keep using the same tires as before. If they had narrowed the track, Goodyear would have had to developed an entire new tire for the cars.
A lot of teams, (especially the smaller ones), merely cut down the wheelbase of their existing chassis 5", & made the necessary changes to the roll cage & such as well, then hung the new sheetmetal on that. It was cheaper on them to do that.
So yes, that's the correct chassis for any GM or FoMoCo NASCAR racer from the 1972 model year on, with the wheelbase downsized starting in 81. |
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67 Fairlane
Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Posts: 125 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Firefly: Great photos always worth a thousand words!
Bluesman: Though not quite a thousand words, a brilliant synopsis of NASCAR chassis design from the mid-60s onward nonetheless. I wager this is only a fraction of what you know. Maybe with a little begging, pleading and strategic grovelling we might convince you to post a more comprehensive seminar on NASCAR chassis development....??
Thank you both!
Jerry |
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George Andrews
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 460
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting to see the tie rod adjusters on the front lower A - arm locator struts, also the multiple bolt holes in the crossmember for adjusting the lower A - arms.
One other advantage of the " Front Steer " chassis was the fact the right front tire was pulled to the left for the corners, rather than pushed from behind the spindle. This was the biggest reason Bobby Allison liked front steer front ends. |
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Yellowsportwagon
Joined: 03 Feb 2018 Posts: 47
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Look how they built their frame around the stock GM rails on the midsection . I think the rules still said a factory frame had to be in place. |
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