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Help with '87 - '88 Ford engines ?

 
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Goodwrench3



Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:33 pm    Post subject: Help with '87 - '88 Ford engines ? Reply with quote

Hi all:

I've built mainly '80's Chevy and Buicks up to now.

Can someone give me a link to any 1:1 photos of these '87 - '88 Ford NASCAR engines  ?   I'm looking for paint colors.

I know the blocks in the early '80's were rarely painted -- just bare cast iron.  I'm guessing the heads by '87 were aluminum.   And the part that I've drawn a box around in the photo ?  I'm guessing that's the dry sump pan (it ain't like the GM pans) ?   Color  ?

Any actual photos would be appreciated !

Thanks[/img]
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john843



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 607
Location: S.C. Lowcountry

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GW3, This doesn't have any shots from the bottom but is, I think fairly representative of the Fords and may at least get you started on the top end.
Kinda like the GM stuff, lots of subtly different shades of metalizers and a lot of Aeroquip line and blue, red, and gold anodized fittings.


https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/126545#slide=gs-214914


John
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Goodwrench3



Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks -- I did see that in my searches. I'm more interested in the bottom end of the engine and the transmission.
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Les Mosher



Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember years ago, an article in "STOCK CAR" magazine showing pictures of Davey Allisons' Thunderbird Cup car. The engine block was painted blue (ford engine blue?), aluminum intake and cast aluminum valve covers. I don't have the article anymore, sorry. I believe the time frame was about 1990. HTH!! Good Luck!!
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Goodwrench3



Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks -- maybe by 1990 they started spending the extra money to paint the engine blocks ? In the 1980's (at least the early 80's), the GM blocks were bare cast iron. It was rare to see any paint on them.

It seems pretty hard to get actual photos that show the BOTTOM of the engine -- where the dry sump pan is though. I have photos like this of the GM engines (my FAV is one where Dale Sr. is wrenching on one in the shop -- excellent shot).
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BW



Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 218
Location: Lick Creek, Alabama

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Goodwrench3. Here's some bottom engine photos of a late '80s Chevy Monte Carlo. (Terry Labonte) Should be about the same for '80s Ford.

[img]

[img]

[img]

Looks like a gold colored Moroso oil pan. Hope these help.
Bobby
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Goodwrench3



Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks --

So, now I've seen aluminum, black, blue, and now gold !

I'm wondering if those Labonte Monte pics were of a restoration car ? or a real one? Often those restoration jobs have more "bling" than the real deal.
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Dfitz



Joined: 23 Jan 2019
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the Ford drysump pans I’ve seen were
black paint or some version of stainless steel
( mill finished or polished ) . NASCAR required
a steel pan. The bell housings were magnesium
(dark gray) or cast aluminum. Most blocks were
unpainted, some were, builders choice.
Stainless headers looked brownish after use.
Intakes and cylinder heads were as cast.
Valve covers - cast aluminum-polished aluminum
cast magnesium (EEI) or fabricated sheet metal.
Not sure of the date but early 90’s on the driveshafts
should be white.
Hope this helps
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Goodwrench3



Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks !

RE: "Not sure of the date but early 90’s on the driveshafts "

Yes I remember the exact race where that change was made (it was in the 80's - the race is on You Tube). It was the one where a car dropped a drive shaft on the track and Earnhardt got a piece of it in the windshield. He was cut and bloody in the car, but -- as one commentator put it -- "he's tougher'n a pine stump !"

Good info -- I didn't realize NASCAR required a steel dry sump pan.
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Goodwrench3



Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So in that pic of the Labonte Monte... that gold Moroso dry sump pan -- is that a steel pan anodized gold ?
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Irish Murphy



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 47
Location: Upstate SC

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goodwrench3 wrote:
So in that pic of the Labonte Monte... that gold Moroso dry sump pan -- is that a steel pan anodized gold ?
Most likely a zinc coated steel pan. Anodizing is usually for aluminum. I say it’s steel because an aluminum one would have been cast and therefore too prone to busting from debris.
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Irish Murphy



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 47
Location: Upstate SC

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goodwrench3 wrote:
So in that pic of the Labonte Monte... that gold Moroso dry sump pan -- is that a steel pan anodized gold ?
Most likely a zinc coated steel pan. Anodizing is usually for aluminum. I say it’s steel because an aluminum one would have been cast and therefore too prone to busting from debris.
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joe b



Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 209
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BW wrote:
Hey Goodwrench3. Here's some bottom engine photos of a late '80s Chevy Monte Carlo. (Terry Labonte) Should be about the same for '80s Ford.

[img]

[img]

[img]

Looks like a gold colored Moroso oil pan. Hope these help.
Bobby


bobby that chassis looks like a ford chassis not a gm. looks exactly like the old monogram ford kits
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scatpack



Joined: 14 Mar 2018
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe b wrote:
BW wrote:
Hey Goodwrench3. Here's some bottom engine photos of a late '80s Chevy Monte Carlo. (Terry Labonte) Should be about the same for '80s Ford.

[img]

[img]

[img]

Looks like a gold colored Moroso oil pan. Hope these help.
Bobby


bobby that chassis looks like a ford chassis not a gm. looks exactly like the old monogram ford kits


Rear steer chassis, I would assume built by Banjo Mathews (?) for Junior Johnson. Chassis would pretty much be the same for a Chevy/Ford.
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Goodwrench3



Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also interesting that the bell housing is more of a magnesium color vs. the dark red ones that are in the pics from the early-mid 80's Wrangler Chevy engine pics that I have.
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Dfitz



Joined: 23 Jan 2019
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The red bellhousings were blowproof steel units.
Childress ran mechanical clutch linkage long
after the hydraulic assemblies showed up.
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Tom M.
Board Moderator


Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 600

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the red or black hydroformed containment bell housings went away when they went to the small multi-disc clutch units. Those were essentially immune from flying apart because they were so small and light.

The gold on the pan is basically the same finish as the gold on carburetor linkages and factory power brake boosters.
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bcs1973



Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a little late to the party, but if you PM me I'll send photos of an article from a ford SVO book in 1986. It shows photos of a buildup at The Elliott's shop. At the moment I can't post the photos, but someone else could. A couple of interesting things include the fact that the engine used a front motor plate rather than the standard mounts. Also, Bill's dry sump tank was behind the of wheel, not in the trunk like the monogram models. There are some good plumbing shots as well.[/img]
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joe b



Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 209
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject: ford engine Reply with quote

hey bcs i would be interested in seeing those elliott engine photos. i plan on building an 87 ford at some point

thanks- joe b
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bcs1973



Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe, Shoot me a PM with an e-mail address and I can send them to you.

Brian
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Goodwrench3



Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject: Ford '89 valve covers Reply with quote

Hey -- it looks like some of the teams around the '88-'89 period were running these valve covers. Were these more of a flat black or gunmetal color ?

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bcs1973



Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't recall seeing black in any photos back then, most of the ones I have seen are aluminum. The black ones I have seen are aluminum Satin--or in some rare cases Wrinkle.
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